Ukraine Protests

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#2,552
#2,552
Grand Vol said:
So you'd rather have a central computer system where one person could potentially have the ability to fire all the ICBM force or 900 people that actually can be sure of the veracity of the launch order?

The cheating thing was kind of surprising though. The Air Force nuclear system has been in trouble for a while. I have my own theories about some of it though.
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Obviously there's got to be safeguards but it appears to me like they've created an overkill bureaucracy to perform what is essentially a computerized task.

With the cheating, and the drugs, and the lost weapons (a few years ago), what could possibly go wrong?

Meanwhile,

German minister compares Putin's Ukraine moves to Hitler in 1938 | Reuters

I'm sure the Russians, in particular, love being compared to Hitler.
 
#2,553
#2,553
Velo Vol said:
Obviously there's got to be safeguards but it appears to me like they've created an overkill bureaucracy to perform what is essentially a computerized task.
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There's more to it than that. When dealing with nuclear weapons and critical components, it's just not that simple of creating a computer program that does everything for you.

Velo Vol said:
With the cheating, and the drugs, and the lost weapons (a few years ago), what could possibly go wrong?
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The weapons were never "lost." There have been a few over time that have gone down with aircraft or had to be retrieved from the bottom of the ocean, but none, including the one you are pointing to, have been lost as you put it.

The system is far from perfect, but removing the human element is a huge mistake in my opinion.
 
#2,555
#2,555
Grand Vol said:
There's more to it than that. When dealing with nuclear weapons and critical components, it's just not that simple of creating a computer program that does everything for you.


The weapons were never "lost." There have been a few over time that have gone down with aircraft or had to be retrieved from the bottom of the ocean, but none, including the one you are pointing to, have been lost as you put it.

The system is far from perfect, but removing the human element is a huge mistake in my opinion.
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I mean it's not labour intensive, requiring the hundreds of people involved.

And no, I don't mean the bombs were MH370 "lost," but they got lost in the chain of custody.

We still have a major issue on the road to diplomacy.

Russians want a non-bloc provision in the UKR constitution.

No dice:

The United States joins our Allies in reaffirming that NATO’s door remains open to any European country in a position to undertake the commitments and obligations of membership, and that can contribute to security in the Euro-Atlantic area.
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#2,556
#2,556
Velo Vol said:
I mean it's not labour intensive, requiring the hundreds of people involved.

And no, I don't mean the bombs were MH370 "lost," but they got lost in the chain of custody.
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I have the opposite opinion. Nukes are something that should require more eyes on and technology can't really duplicate. It's certainly not something you don't want enough people checking and having each other back them up.
 
#2,557
#2,557
Grand Vol said:
I have the opposite opinion. Nukes are something that should require more eyes on and technology can't really duplicate. It's certainly not something you don't want enough people checking and having each other back them up.
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I think our main disagreement is the number of people necessary. I'm thinking dozens rather than hundreds.

It's a pretty thankless job, really, knowing that if you're ever actually needed the world is FUBAR. No wonder they have problems.
 
#2,559
#2,559
Velo Vol said:
It's a pretty thankless job, really, knowing that if you're ever actually needed the world is FUBAR. No wonder they have problems.
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And there lies the problem with the missile force. In the hierarchy of Air Force officers, it's pilots then everyone else. Even the pilots have their own system of pecking order. Anyway, the missile folks are pretty much at the bottom of that heap. It's a dead end job that doesn't really have the promotion opportunities and doesn't tend to attract the best and brightest. So not only is it a thankless job, but tends to get the leftovers from the pilot programs.

So the USAF created the system that has eventually led to trouble within their ranks.
 
#2,561
#2,561
Velo Vol said:
This article poses an interesting question. Should the West be targeting Russian propagandists--err "journalists"--with sanctions?

https://twitter.com/ForeignPolicy/status/451027971361742849

Is there a better way to counter misinformation?
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With the information age as it is today, slapping sanctions on journalists isn't going to be much help really. I can call up any Russian news source on the computer and have it translated for me and go on my merry way. And generally take it for what it's worth as propaganda depending on how out there the story happens to be.

This would honestly be more of a token gesture (much like the original sanctions) against the oligarchs in Russia.

Now if we were able to override the controls on the internet in those countries and allow the flow of information to the Russian people, that would be very helpful.
 
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#2,562
#2,562
Oh my.

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Viktor Yanukovych decries Crimea 'tragedy'

Ukraine's deposed President Viktor Yanukovych says Russia's annexation of Crimea is "a tragedy" and he hopes it will become part of Ukraine again.
. . .
Mr Yanukovych, now in Russia, said he would try to persuade Russian President Vladimir Putin to return Crimea to Ukraine.

"Crimea is a tragedy, a major tragedy," he said.

"We must set such a task and search for ways to return to Crimea on any conditions, so that Crimea may have the maximum degree of independence possible... but be part of Ukraine."
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Is he trying to get sent to Siberia?
 
#2,564
#2,564
Putin just needs to make his people feel like NATO poses a little bit of a threat to them and he can pretty much justify any actions, in their eyes.
 
#2,565
#2,565
I don't get the point of sending a couple planes to Poland or a couple hundred troops to Romania. Are they going to stop the Russian invasion? If not, why bother?
 
#2,566
#2,566
Velo Vol said:
I don't get the point of sending a couple planes to Poland or a couple hundred troops to Romania. Are they going to stop the Russian invasion? If not, why bother?
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Show of support mainly. Entirely symbolic in nature.

Kind of like the 82nd Airborne that deployed into Saudi Arabia in the early stages of Desert Shield. They had little chance of stopping the Iraqi Army had they started moving south, but an initial response was needed.
 
#2,567
#2,567
I'm of the opinion to not poke at the bear and let things cool down. If you want to have a show of strength for NATO, do it in central Europe.

Discuss

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#2,571
#2,571
Burhead said:
Well I guess you could but it's not typical recommended. They could tear you limb from limb bud, just looking out for ya.
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Actually dealing with a roaming hog at the moment. Keeps tearing up the back 40.

I'll get to the bear later.
 
#2,575
#2,575
Well those "masked" gunmen have made a reappearance in Donetsk today, pro-Russian forces have stormed regional government buildings and now pulling up Russian flags. They also have issued demands for referendums. Crime: Part Deux.
 
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