Ukraine Protests

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#2,605
#2,605
Not sure what Ukraine thinks it accomplishes by issuing deadlines and then doing nothing about them, but it hasn't looked very good.

Saw a blurb about a Kyiv security minister being fired but don't know the details. Things seem to be in disarray. Weird coming on the heels of the CIA director visit.
 
#2,606
#2,606
What exactly would our altierer motives be? Move Ukraine away from communism..check. Stage civil unrest...check. Now what influence exactly could we enforce? The CIA director could be giving directions to uk forces, but clearly their presence is zero. Do ukraines want to become Russians? At this point it looks like they are about to be.
 
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#2,607
#2,607
#VFL__ said:
What exactly would our altierer motives be? Move Ukraine away from communism..check. Stage civil unrest...check. Now what influence exactly could we enforce? The CIA director could be giving directions to uk forces, but clearly their presence is zero. Do ukraines want to become Russians? At this point it looks like they are about to be.
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A small minority wants to be apart of Russia. I think Kiev understands they are going to lose the East regardless of if they fight back or not. I don't think the people in the western Ukraine will tolerate inaction for much longer though.
 
#2,612
#2,612
Burhead said:
A small minority wants to be apart of Russia. I think Kiev understands they are going to lose the East regardless of if they fight back or not. I don't think the people in the western Ukraine will tolerate inaction for much longer though.
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Then tell their asses to move to Russia and re enforce your cities/ borders. It just doesn't make sense to me. The gov and armed forces obviously have deep ties with Russia but eventually Ukrainians need to step up. Either way, this whole ordeal demonstrates exactly why Putin has been in power. The dude is a KGB nut job and there is no telling what he and his circle have planned. I've been friends with a select few Russians and none of them came off as strongly as Putin.
 
#2,613
#2,613
Rockytoptalker said:
Just wondering, but why is the U.S. the one that will probably be supplying weapons in this case? I'm aware of how large our defense budget is, but this seems like something the E.U. needs to handle.
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Yep the EU is a complete failure. If it was acting like the entity that it should be; Crimea would still be Ukrainian.
 
#2,615
#2,615
Rockytoptalker said:
Just wondering, but why is the U.S. the one that will probably be supplying weapons in this case? I'm aware of how large our defense budget is, but this seems like something the E.U. needs to handle.
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Because Europe is a bunch of *******s and is perfectly content with us footing the bill. As I understand, we're currently trying to move away from that model, but Europe seems pretty content with it. Complain about us all the damn time but when their asses are on the line, it's "Hey, America, help out!"
 
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#2,619
#2,619
Velo Vol said:
I'm beginning to wonder if they would even use the arms.
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It's a very precarious spot the interim government faces. If they were to fully act, then Vlad comes riding in to Ukraine on his damn mythical T-90 unicorn. At the same time though, they're pretty much letting him do that anyways at the moment. No way in hell this recent mess in the east is grassroots. That's straight up Moscow. No doubt about it.
 
#2,620
#2,620
Velo Vol said:
They're more worried about the fallout on their own economies than they are about Ukraine.
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Oh, for sure. I totally understand that. At the same time, you can't allow blatant land-grabbing in your own backyard. And that's what this is. I know America often tends to be a complete "ass" in its foreign policy, but I don't think we've practiced this kind of land-grabbing either. It's one thing to try to establish your interests in a country, but quite another to actually take it over and raise the tri-color.
 
#2,621
#2,621
Rockytoptalker said:
Just wondering, but why is the U.S. the one that will probably be supplying weapons in this case? I'm aware of how large our defense budget is, but this seems like something the E.U. needs to handle.
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Europeans get a majority of their energy supplies from Mother Russia...
 
#2,622
#2,622
volprof said:
Are you in the military, VFL? One of your previous posts seemed to suggest so. Just curious.
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Nope, I was just implying that if this continues it is going to start affecting all of us. Not just those serving in our military.
 
#2,623
#2,623
#VFL__ said:
Then tell their asses to move to Russia and re enforce your cities/ borders. It just doesn't make sense to me. The gov and armed forces obviously have deep ties with Russia but eventually Ukrainians need to step up. Either way, this whole ordeal demonstrates exactly why Putin has been in power. The dude is a KGB nut job and there is no telling what he and his circle have planned. I've been friends with a select few Russians and none of them came off as strongly as Putin.
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Not sure what more they can do. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can either do

1. Use force to put down the separatists Russia comes in guns blazing which results in massive causalities for both sides and still lose the East.

or

2. They just let the Kremlin continue this no so covert take over and let Moscow have the East without fighting back to save lives.

Either way, Kiev has lost the war either way. They just have to determine if they want to waste lives and resources or not.
 
#2,624
#2,624
Burhead said:
Not sure what more they can do. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can either do

1. Use force to put down the separatists Russia comes in guns blazing which results in massive causalities for both sides and still lose the East.

or

2. They just let the Kremlin continue this no so covert take over and let Moscow have the East without fighting back to save lives.

Either way, Kiev has lost the war either way. They just have to determine if they want to waste lives and resources or not.
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You don't think that if Ukraine asked the EU/usa to send in a small force along their troops on the border to detur an all out Russian incursion it wouldn't work?
 
#2,625
#2,625
Burhead said:
Not sure what more they can do. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can either do

1. Use force to put down the separatists Russia comes in guns blazing which results in massive causalities for both sides and still lose the East.

or

2. They just let the Kremlin continue this no so covert take over and let Moscow have the East without fighting back to save lives.

Either way, Kiev has lost the war either way. They just have to determine if they want to waste lives and resources or not.
Click to expand...

And if you're not going to protect your buildings from armed Russian henchmen because Russia says not to; then you probably don't deserve to have a country.
 
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