Ukraine Protests

[Velo Vol]

And eventually the Ukraine falls back into the Russian sphere of influence since it's apparent Europe won't back any non-NATO country in the region opposing Putin since they rely on Russian gas and oil. And this has significant long term impacts on the geopolitical stage that we can't even guess at right now.

It depends what kind of government they vote in. I don't think Russia has done itself any favors in the non-eastern part of the country with this "invasion."

 

[Septic]

 

[volprof]

Indeed.

 

[Grand Vol]

It depends what kind of government they vote in. I don't think Russia has done itself any favors in the non-eastern part of the country with this "invasion."

I don't disagree. But when you happen to be the lone person facing the mass horde of barbarians running at you, throwing up your hands in surrender is an option at the forefront. National pride aside, reality is the Ukraine has been going at this pretty much alone and would have little to no support from the EU and the US in countering Russia.

 

[Velo Vol]

Ukraine Live Blog - Live Blogs - Al Jazeera English

Ukraine's parliament has began a procedure to dissolve the regional assembly in Crimea after it asked to join Russia, Ukraine's interim president Oleksandr Turchynov said.

"The Rada (parliament in Kiev) will begin the procedure for dissolution," Turchynov said hours after the assembly in the tense peninsula adopted a motion to become part of the Russian Federation. [AFP]

More here.

Turchynov stops referendum in Crimea

 

[KentheOrange]

CIA intelligence and international consensus? Where exactly am I failing here? I'm always open to learn new things.

As Mark Twain said, "'If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed." The media in this country has been creating so much of the news over the past 50 - 60 years we don't even recognize when we are being lied to until well after the fact, if then. Walter Cronkite convinced the American public that we lost the Tet Offensive and that all was lost in SE Asia. The Viet Cong leadership was amazed at that analysis.

CNN and Obama convinced the American public that the Honduras army had staged a coup, when in fact they had defended their constitution by preventing Zelaya from seizing a third term.

The Iraqi people for the most part thought of the US Military as an occupying force and did not give them the open arms treatment Bush and others would have you believe. If you are naive enough to believe there were no WMDs you need to talk to a few Kurds (who are our closest allies in the region in spite of how we keep turning our backs on them). When our troops pulled out the Iraqis started bringing WMDs to Baghdad to be disarmed. British troops were brought in for that task.

It is my belief that the main reason we invaded Iraq (other than being the strong arm of the UN) was to establish a military base there to protect our interest in the area. That didn't happen, and unless Iraq is directly threatened by Iran I don't think it will.

 

[orangeluvr]

As Mark Twain said, "'If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed." The media in this country has been creating so much of the news over the past 50 - 60 years we don't even recognize when we are being lied to until well after the fact, if then. Walter Cronkite convinced the American public that we lost the Tet Offensive and that all was lost in SE Asia. The Viet Cong leadership was amazed at that analysis.

CNN and Obama convinced the American public that the Honduras army had staged a coup, when in fact they had defended their constitution by preventing Zelaya from seizing a third term.

The Iraqi people for the most part thought of the US Military as an occupying force and did not give them the open arms treatment Bush and others would have you believe. If you are naive enough to believe there were no WMDs you need to talk to a few Kurds (who are our closest allies in the region in spite of how we keep turning our backs on them). When our troops pulled out the Iraqis started bringing WMDs to Baghdad to be disarmed. British troops were brought in for that task.

It is my belief that the main reason we invaded Iraq (other than being the strong arm of the UN) was to establish a military base there to protect our interest in the area. That didn't happen, and unless Iraq is directly threatened by Iran I don't think it will.

C'mon man ! Faux News Channel fully supported bush's false allegations in presenting the case for the invasion of Iraq. Faux is nothing but a propaganda arm of the GOP that specializes in distorting the facts and telling half-truths. :crazy: :loco:

 

[utvolpj]

C'mon man ! Faux News Channel fully supported bush's false allegations in presenting the case for the invasion of Iraq. Faux is nothing but a propaganda arm of the GOP that specializes in distorting the facts and telling half-truths. :crazy: :loco:

just like the Dems have MSNBC. Only difference is they aren't even entertaining

 

[davethevol]

C'mon man ! Faux News Channel fully supported bush's false allegations in presenting the case for the invasion of Iraq. Faux is nothing but a propaganda arm of the GOP that specializes in distorting the facts and telling half-truths. :crazy: :loco:

So the GOP has 1 single network while the dems have ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, MSNBC, and CNN, not to mention most newspapers and NPR.......

 

[volprof]

As Mark Twain said, "'If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed." The media in this country has been creating so much of the news over the past 50 - 60 years we don't even recognize when we are being lied to until well after the fact, if then. Walter Cronkite convinced the American public that we lost the Tet Offensive and that all was lost in SE Asia. The Viet Cong leadership was amazed at that analysis.

CNN and Obama convinced the American public that the Honduras army had staged a coup, when in fact they had defended their constitution by preventing Zelaya from seizing a third term.

The Iraqi people for the most part thought of the US Military as an occupying force and did not give them the open arms treatment Bush and others would have you believe. If you are naive enough to believe there were no WMDs you need to talk to a few Kurds (who are our closest allies in the region in spite of how we keep turning our backs on them). When our troops pulled out the Iraqis started bringing WMDs to Baghdad to be disarmed. British troops were brought in for that task.

It is my belief that the main reason we invaded Iraq (other than being the strong arm of the UN) was to establish a military base there to protect our interest in the area. That didn't happen, and unless Iraq is directly threatened by Iran I don't think it will.

This all sounds great. But in this post what exactly did you say to refute my previous post?

 

[Septic]

So the GOP has 1 single network while the dems have ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, MSNBC, and CNN, not to mention most newspapers and NPR.......

PBS

:crazy:

 

[Velo Vol]

I don't disagree. But when you happen to be the lone person facing the mass horde of barbarians running at you, throwing up your hands in surrender is an option at the forefront. National pride aside, reality is the Ukraine has been going at this pretty much alone and would have little to no support from the EU and the US in countering Russia.

Yes, and they just overthrew a Russian-friendly government.

Ultimately it's going to boil down to what the Ukrainians want, not what outsiders do. We can offer them bailout money, but they're the ones who must decide if they want real change or are going to revert back to the same system they've been bogged in for the past decade.

 

[utvolpj]

PBS

:crazy:

since I have young kids I've watched a lot of PBS (mostly because I was too tired to turn the channel after cartoons were done). There have definitely been segments that made me question their leanings. It was usually on some show following Charlie Rose who I really like.

 

[Grand Vol]

Ukraine's interim president says government working to block Crimea referendum | Fox News

Ukraine’s interim president says the country’s parliament is starting procedures to dismiss Crimean lawmakers and to block a referendum approved Thursday that would ask the region’s voters whether or not they want to leave Ukraine for Russia.

Crimea’s parliament, which enjoys a degree of autonomy under current Ukrainian law, voted 78-0 with eight abstentions Thursday in favor of holding the referendum and joining Russia. Local voters will also be given the choice of deciding to remain part of Ukraine, but with enhanced local powers.

Interesting part here:

U.S. President Barack Obama said Thursday that the referendum would violate Ukraine’s constitution and international law, echoing statements made earlier by State Department Spokeswoman Jen Psaki.

So if a region is about to declare independence from it's host country, exactly why would they care about violating the host country's Constitution? Furthermore, with the Russian security forces basically blocking all access to the Crimea, how exactly is the Ukraine going to stop them from holding the referendum?

Not sure which international law was being broken here. Anyone in the know on that?

 

[Gramps]

So the GOP has 1 single network while the dems have ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, MSNBC, and CNN, not to mention most newspapers and NPR.......

Dems have the tv networks, GOP has talk radio.

 

[volinbham]

Why on earth do people keep referring to the 21st century as a reason why this situation is wrong? Obama, Kerry and now the Ukrainian interim PM all use this like something magical happened when we hit the year 2000. (spare me the Prince or Conan O'Brien references)

 

[volmaverick]

C'mon man ! Faux News Channel fully supported bush's false allegations :

Want to see what the Dems at the time had to say about Iraq and WMD? All of them said the same thing!

 

[Grand Vol]

So the GOP has 1 single network while the dems have ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, MSNBC, and CNN, not to mention most newspapers and NPR.......

That contains: Megyn Kelly, Andrea Tantaros, Harris Faulkner, Ainsley Earhardt, Kimberly Guilfoyle...

I could go on, but I'd personally rather watch Megyn Kelly read from a dictionary over Rachel Maddow reporting the legitimate news.

 

[KentheOrange]

This all sounds great. But in this post what exactly did you say to refute my previous post?

Your post indicated you believe Bush took us into Iraq based on lies about WMDs and Orangeluvr seems to agree with you. I'm only pointing out the error of that line of thinking.

 

[Grand Vol]

Why on earth do people keep referring to the 21st century as a reason why this situation is wrong? Obama, Kerry and now the Ukrainian interim PM all use this like something magical happened when we hit the year 2000. (spare me the Prince or Conan O'Brien references)

What I find humorous about this situation is the fact they keep saying how "19th century" the situation is and are attempting to deal with it in a "21st century" manner.

Sometimes you have to play the same game your opponent plays. And if that means we take a 19th century approach to this problem to get Russia and more specifically Putin's attention? So be it.

 

[orangeluvr]

So the GOP has 1 single network while the dems have ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, MSNBC, and CNN, not to mention most newspapers and NPR.......

Right wing programs dominate the radio waves.

 

[KentheOrange]

Right wing programs dominate the radio waves.

Did you ever ask yourself why? Left wing broadcasts cannot support themselves and depend on the government for support.

 

[orangeluvr]

Want to see what the Dems at the time had to say about Iraq and WMD? All of them said the same thing!

bush even sent the then respected colin powell to lie before the UN General Assembly, why powell sacrificed his integrity to do that makes one wonder. :crazy:

 

[orangeluvr]

Did you ever ask yourself why? Left wing broadcasts cannot support themselves and depend on the government for support.

I find myself wondering why people support a party that clearly don't have their best interests in mind. You know,the trickle down crowd. :question:

 

[KentheOrange]

You must be drowning in the kool-aid.