Ukraine Protests

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#8,426
#8,426
@ArmandKnutsen 3m3 minutes ago

Kyiv authorities today stopped all gas deliveries to Lughansk and Donetsk. It is minus 10 degrees Celcius in Lughansk.
 
#8,427
#8,427
CSpindizzy said:
Sanctions are usually due to an initial action. in your continued rants you make it sound like Russia is just little ol' innocent nation that the rest of the world is just out to punish, invade, carve up, and stick it to any way they can. Facts on the other hand show Russia is left alone until they tend to say invade other nations or say violate their signed agreements on specific nations' well being. Just wild speculation on my part but when Russia signed a "respect the sovereignty of Ukraine" treaty but violate it, you cannot expect the world to just sit back and do nothing. Sanctions did not come from thin air. Violations of signed agreements tend to cause reactions. If you cannot trust a nation's word on trade agreements, peace, borders, etc. what can you trust? Right now you are calling the murderer the victim and the spectators going after the murderer the guilty ones. See how your whole murder, weapon, etc. example really works?

As for leverage, not sure how your people suffering becomes leverage. Not sure how keeping your nation based on a single resource limited by the inability to have the tech to keep that resource flowing is leverage.
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Obama said sanctions don't work in Cuba at the same time he was cranking up sanctions on Russia.
 
#8,428
#8,428
CSpindizzy said:
When you parrot pretty much word for word what an authoritarian government controlled media says....it's pretty obvious. You do realize you are regurgitating Russian MSM right? And when I say Russian MSM, it's pretty much the only M. If you repeat what a government tells you and never doubt or question it, you become a tool of that repressive government.
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You do realize that you regurgitate US lies and claim them truthful. Everyone knows you've been dipped and are a full fledged Russophobe....
 
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#8,429
#8,429
Rasputin_Vol said:
Obama said sanctions don't work in Cuba at the same time he was cranking up sanctions on Russia.
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When nothing came of doing it for 50+ years I'd say we have failure. I personally have not been a fan of the sanctions in Russia. Economics in Russia are a little different than economics in Cuba as well. Some things may work against one nation and not others. Apparently, invasion is the method of choice of Russia. As bad as US foreign policy is we tend to diversify - nothing at all, sanctions, arms, 'police action', war, etc.
 
#8,430
#8,430
Pacer92 said:
You do realize that you regurgitate US lies and claim them truthful. Everyone knows you've been dipped and are a full fledged Russophobe....
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What have I lied about? Russians in Ukraine? Russian equipment in Ukraine? Russian military and government officials in Ukraine? Russian fascists running governments in Ukraine? What lies have I told?

Russophobe? Seriously? This idiotic statement shows you have not read anything I've posted. I do not fear Russia. I do not hate Russia. I've been there many times, stayed there for short periods, have many friends there and here that are Russian, love the food, speak the language, periodically go to a Russian church here, etc. My disdain is against a fascist leader currently in power trying to revive an evil period of history. My disdain is toward an authoritarian who suppresses assembly, speech, religion, political opposition and fosters a culture of violent nationalism, seclusion, and revived fascism. My disdain is toward a leader who has completely ripped up several signed agreements - even ones he himself has signed. My disdain is to a liar, a thief, and invader. My disdain is toward a leader who kicks people out for merely being humanitarian but calling them enemy/foreign agents. Russia has nothing to do with it. This is all on Putin, his apologists and this whole cancerous way of thinking. Everyone knows I am a Russophobe? No, not really. This only exists in your mind.
 
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#8,432
#8,432
Rasputin_Vol said:
Amused that the western countries that those companies would be in are the ones that put sanctions on Russia in the first place.

You can't attempt to punish a country like Russia with trade sanctions and then turn around and expect them to deal with corporate debt owed to those same countries. That act might work with El Salvador or Mozambique, but Russia has leverage.
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ukraine vs gazprom
 
#8,433
#8,433
Apparently, the National Endowment for Democracy is the fad talking point. Freelance journalist Elliott Higgins is being attacked by Sputnik for hidden ties to the CIA and NED. The guy compiled photos of various Russian equipment in Ukraine and gained some traction in the media and now the Russian troll army is claiming he has conspiracy ties. Beware those who compile evidence against Putin. Within Russia you become a traitor and enemy of the state. Outside Russia you automatically have ties to the CIA. Pacer talks about paranoia....apparently Putin and his media claim anyone against him is CIA. This forum topic must be a hotbed of CIA activity. THAT is why we have two Russian trolls in here.....
 
#8,435
#8,435
Rasputin_Vol said:
Not only that, but he gets paid to disrupt Ukraine.
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Proof? Link? Or just more of the typical tinfoil lies you seem to only be capable of saying? All your buddies from Russia are the ones getting paid. Some of the POW's captured are even complaining of not getting paid like promised. Typical of Russian fascists. Have you cashed your check yet?
 
#8,437
#8,437
CSpindizzy said:
Seems our "freelancers" are still having troubles with the translation of the word "ceasefire". More lies and broken promises. But Pacer and Ras think this is honorable behavior.

Latest from OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) to Ukraine based on information received as of 18:00 (Kyiv time), 18 February | OSCE
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Speaking of the cease fire... I found it odd (and I'm sure you did as well) that they would make the agreement of the ceasefire last Thursday, but the official end of the ceasefire wasn't scheduled until Saturday midnight. Have you wondered what the deal was with that? Why did they stretch out the clock like for an extra 2-3 days?
 
#8,439
#8,439
CSpindizzy said:
What have I lied about? Russians in Ukraine? Russian equipment in Ukraine? Russian military and government officials in Ukraine? Russian fascists running governments in Ukraine? What lies have I told?

Russophobe? Seriously? This idiotic statement shows you have not read anything I've posted. I do not fear Russia. I do not hate Russia. I've been there many times, stayed there for short periods, have many friends there and here that are Russian, love the food, speak the language, periodically go to a Russian church here, etc. My disdain is against a fascist leader currently in power trying to revive an evil period of history. My disdain is toward an authoritarian who suppresses assembly, speech, religion, political opposition and fosters a culture of violent nationalism, seclusion, and revived fascism. My disdain is toward a leader who has completely ripped up several signed agreements - even ones he himself has signed. My disdain is to a liar, a thief, and invader. My disdain is toward a leader who kicks people out for merely being humanitarian but calling them enemy/foreign agents. Russia has nothing to do with it. This is all on Putin, his apologists and this whole cancerous way of thinking. Everyone knows I am a Russophobe? No, not really. This only exists in your mind.
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You win the thread. Congratulations.
 
#8,443
#8,443
Rasputin_Vol said:
Speaking of the cease fire... I found it odd (and I'm sure you did as well) that they would make the agreement of the ceasefire last Thursday, but the official end of the ceasefire wasn't scheduled until Saturday midnight. Have you wondered what the deal was with that? Why did they stretch out the clock like for an extra 2-3 days?
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Russia pushed for the delay. Like I said before, when that part was pushed the media also reported Poroshenko leaving quickly. The MFA said he was on the phone to his defense ministry warning them of this delay. Basically, Putin wanted time to take Debaltseve. Sad thing is that the "freelancers" are still shelling the town and shooting the Ukrainian soldiers left there - some even while they retreat up north. It's clear that they care less about the ceasefire they signed and are more concerned about taking this hub. The ceasefire was a joke. Putin pushing for it was for that reason. But yet Russia is not tied into this at all....really.
 
#8,444
#8,444
Rasputin_Vol said:
Do you have it in you you to be serious for a half-second?
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I max out at 0.4 seconds

Ghost towns and now a ghost ceasefire in Russia-controlled Ukraine - World - CBC News

When Merkel went to Minsk she asked for an immediate ceasefire. Putin countered with a proposal for a ceasefire in 10 days, time enough to overrun Debaltseve.

In the end, the leaders agreed on a two-day delay, which the separatists, backed by the Kremlin, simply ignored until they pushed the Ukrainian army units out of the beleaguered town.
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#8,445
#8,445
CSpindizzy said:
Russia pushed for the delay. Like I said before, when that part was pushed the media also reported Poroshenko leaving quickly. The MFA said he was on the phone to his defense ministry warning them of this delay. Basically, Putin wanted time to take Debaltseve. Sad thing is that the "freelancers" are still shelling the town and shooting the Ukrainian soldiers left there - some even while they retreat up north. It's clear that they care less about the ceasefire they signed and are more concerned about taking this hub. The ceasefire was a joke. Putin pushing for it was for that reason. But yet Russia is not tied into this at all....really.
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OK, one more question. For the most part, would you agree with me that outside of Debaltseve, the ceasefire has been recognized? I'm sure there are minor skirmishes scattered here or there, but for the most part, you would agree that outside of Debaltseve, the cease fire is in effect?
 
#8,446
#8,446
Rasputin_Vol said:
OK, one more question. For the most part, would you agree with me that outside of Debaltseve, the ceasefire has been recognized? I'm sure there are minor skirmishes scattered here or there, but for the most part, you would agree that outside of Debaltseve, the cease fire is in effect?
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If there is fighting the cease-fire isn't being observed.
 
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#8,447
#8,447
#8,448
#8,448
Rasputin_Vol said:
OK, one more question. For the most part, would you agree with me that outside of Debaltseve, the ceasefire has been recognized? I'm sure there are minor skirmishes scattered here or there, but for the most part, you would agree that outside of Debaltseve, the cease fire is in effect?
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I'm not big on exceptions. Signing a ceasefire and then violating it is violating it. Coming back after the signing and changing the rules and conditions by saying the lines we agreed on aren't really what we agreed on...demanding that Debaltseve surrender AFTER the fact? Hard to just sort of glance over this "minor" breaking of the agreement. The pic I posted with the slide on it the other day...complete devastation of a town AFTER they get their agreed upon ceasefire terms - two day head start and STILL shelling after the fact...Let's not forget the whole line of POW's taken. When all of the ones they already had were to be released I am just trying to understand the logic of still attacking, killing, and taking prisoners when nothing is supposed to be going on. Makes no sense.

Nevermind the people who have been shelled, wounded, and killed since then in all the other locations. A few times we've had some decent sized Grad attacks. We're not talking an accidental "oops I leaned on the button". Each day the OSCE reports artillery strikes and DNR taking more land, even another village.
 
#8,449
#8,449
Rasputin_Vol said:
Speaking of the cease fire... I found it odd (and I'm sure you did as well) that they would make the agreement of the ceasefire last Thursday, but the official end of the ceasefire wasn't scheduled until Saturday midnight. Have you wondered what the deal was with that? Why did they stretch out the clock like for an extra 2-3 days?
Click to expand...

Bigger picture and in a point I already made I am still curious as to why these "freelancers" still fight and what the point is in taking Debaltseve. According to Minsk II all of this land still remains in Ukraine's control. There will be no independent DNR or LNR. Neither will be part of Russia. All of this comes back under control of Kyiv. So why is this still going on unless these "freelancers" intend on breaking the agreement. It seems odd to keep fighting for land that all just goes right back to Ukraine as the year goes on. So instead of war casualties this becomes murder.
 
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