Ukraine Protests

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#8,402
#8,402
Pacer92 said:
And it's odd that American "agents" show up right before the over throw of Yanukovich. It's odd that the US had plans of placing their guy before things got out of control. It's odd the US and NATO started showing muscle in the Black Sea. It's odd that a US led NATO start beefing up militarily in the baltics and playing war games on Russia's border. It's odd that the US so desperately wants to supply weapons to Ukraine when nobody else of significance does.

It's odd you keep denying all of this while spewing your so called "facts" of Russian aggression.
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"Agents"? Who exactly? Have you just ignored the facts? Do you like hearing yourself ramble? The guy the US liked is who Yanukovich had already spoken to. Simply put the next guy in line in Ukrainian politics was Yatsenyuk. Plain and simple. It was the natural flow. Yanukovich picked him because he was next in line. He picked him because he was a qualified candidate. Somehow thinking that Yatsenyuk was "our guy" that we put in power is based on flat out stupidity.

What power flexed in the Black Sea? When? Beefed up in the Baltics? When did this begin? The US wants to supply weapons because Russia already has and is violating numerous agreements in doing so. The US is responding to Russia ALREADY being involved. Somehow in your ignorant mind you forget that Russia was involved well before. Somehow in your ignorant mind you forget that RUSSIA is the one meddling. Somehow in your ignorant mind RUSSIA is the one already acting in Ukraine after they have signed treaties and agreements not to. To date, the US is 'guilty' of merely saying they support a guy Yanukovich asked to take the PM position. We endorsed the already given pick but somehow we made a coup. Which by the way still waiting on evidence we did so....still waiting on how we threw Yanukovich out of office and installed Yatsenyuk....who by the way is not in power. Odd that the guy we supposedly installed is no longer there. Since we allegedly fix elections why is he still not there?

I deny what you say because there is no proof. And again, the US actions are in response to events already taking place. You basically have us there dragging people in the streets to protest, causing Yanukovich to become corrupt and lie and sink his country, cause Yanukovich to beat and kill his own people, and then cause him to run. And then the US dragged Russian military and political personnel (many who are diehard fascists) to Crimea and Ukraine to run this "revolution". The US dragged Bez, Babay, Strelkov, Borodai, Motorola, etc. all from Russia to run a war and steal land....oh and fix elections.

You keep denying facts. You keep your head wrapped in foil and shove it in the sand. Keep cheering on the actual fascists who are breaking laws, conventions, treaties, etc. Cheer on the people shelling towns and killing the civilians they claim to want to liberate. Blame America. But right now in this situation America is being a stupid bystander while Russia is the one with blood on her hands.
 
#8,403
#8,403
Pacer92 said:
So swallowing up former soviet states into NATO and building up militarily on the Russian border isn't provocative?

What's your excuse this time?
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As someone who was in the military during the Cold War, I would much rather have been part of NATO than the Soviet Union. Maybe these countries that are being "swallowed up" see little difference between the Soviet Union and Putin's Russia.
 
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#8,404
#8,404
Pacer92 said:
So swallowing up former soviet states into NATO and building up militarily on the Russian border isn't provocative?

What's your excuse this time?
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the other nations wanted in, just like apparently E. Ukraine wants out. thats what you guys have been saying all along. if the people want it, who are we to say no? If Lithunia, Estonia and Latavia want to join NATO why is NATO supposed to say no? If NATO says no aren't they oppressing the freedom of those countries by not letting them do what they want?

and military build up of 12 planes? Running preplanned wargames in poland?Largely ignoring the mass calls for doubled NATO presence. What we are 'giving' the NATO nations is just a bone for them to chew on. They aren't wanting regiments on war games they want battalions on war footing. and from what i have seen nothing has been placed as close to the border as the Russian soldiers on their side. If Russia can have troops within 100 miles why can't NATO/Lithunia/Estonia/Latavia have troops within 100 miles on their side. you are using a double standard. Its bad when the US/NATO/EU does it but its ok when Russia does it because maybe the US/NATO/EU did something a decade ago. I haven't seen much okaying of American faults, except when saying we aren't as bad as Russia. One side has tried to keep the conversation on topic Ukraine vs Russia. While you keep wanting to make it NATOs fault when Russia is the one at the table making demands and breaking promises.
 
#8,405
#8,405
LouderVol said:
the other nations wanted in, just like apparently E. Ukraine wants out. thats what you guys have been saying all along. if the people want it, who are we to say no? If Lithunia, Estonia and Latavia want to join NATO why is NATO supposed to say no? If NATO says no aren't they oppressing the freedom of those countries by not letting them do what they want?

and military build up of 12 planes? Running preplanned wargames in poland?Largely ignoring the mass calls for doubled NATO presence. What we are 'giving' the NATO nations is just a bone for them to chew on. They aren't wanting regiments on war games they want battalions on war footing. and from what i have seen nothing has been placed as close to the border as the Russian soldiers on their side. If Russia can have troops within 100 miles why can't NATO/Lithunia/Estonia/Latavia have troops within 100 miles on their side. you are using a double standard. Its bad when the US/NATO/EU does it but its ok when Russia does it because maybe the US/NATO/EU did something a decade ago. I haven't seen much okaying of American faults, except when saying we aren't as bad as Russia. One side has tried to keep the conversation on topic Ukraine vs Russia. While you keep wanting to make it NATOs fault when Russia is the one at the table making demands and breaking promises.
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They wanted in because puppets were installed to get that done. It's the same thing as in Ukraine, and Georgia for that matter, except that Putin said enough is enough. It's that simple.
 
#8,406
#8,406
Pacer92 said:
Never did I say massive...

NATO creates a new quick-reaction force of 5,000 troops - CCTV News - CCTV.com English
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Wow! Defensive alliance throws together a force that will take time to organize and train and is a total of 5K. And get this....it is AFTER Russia invades a neighbor to the south, invades a western neighbor in a hybrid war, ramps up its nuclear weapons program again, and increases its defense budget when people are running out of food. Amazing how Russia goes nuts and the West responds, you accuse the West of being the issue.....
 
#8,407
#8,407
Pacer92 said:
So swallowing up former soviet states into NATO and building up militarily on the Russian border isn't provocative?

What's your excuse this time?
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When these little guys have had experience with Russian invasions and brutality and they want protection from a known bully...

And 500 additional troops doing training exercises in the Baltics is building up? These guys stay a while and rotate out and somehow you think it an invasion force.

The lunchroom bully is taking everyone's lunch money and you blame the victims.
 
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#8,409
#8,409
Pacer92 said:
They wanted in because puppets were installed to get that done. It's the same thing as in Ukraine, and Georgia for that matter, except that Putin said enough is enough. It's that simple.
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Puppets were installed? You really are ignorant. Please tell me what puppets are there. And prove how they were installed. I will call your BS out right here. You go bat crazy on everyone's proof..I want to see proof of puppets. Fair elections in these countries. Lithuania's president is no one's puppet. She calls it like she sees it and has taken a much harder line against Soviet, er...Russian aggression.

Enough is enough? Hardly. Putin has been meddling and involved since he has been in power. The FSB has been running operations for years in all of these countries. Enough is enough? Yep, invading your neighbors because the people don't like your puppets....manly. Legal as well.

Puppets? Yanukovich is one. Good ol' Kadyrov in Chechnya. Many others all around. You really need to get out of the basement.
 
#8,410
#8,410
If the Baltic and Eastern European members of NATO were mere American puppets, you better bet their rears would be spending more than 1 percent (if even that) of their GDP on defense.

Moochers is a better description for those nations.
 
#8,411
#8,411
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/20/w...s-jets-to-intercept-russian-bombers.html?_r=0

I find it curious that such peaceful power Russia would do this twice in the past few weeks - one time with a nuclear payload. What is the point of going into this area off a nation that really has not been involved in this whole Ukraine discussion? Why put nuclear bombers right off this area of British coast?

It probably has to do with the investigation into Russia's assassination of Alexander Litvinenko. But Russia sending agents into a foreign country to assassinate a former FSB agent with a lot of dirt on Putin...I am sure Russia is the victim and is only responding after being provoked...
 
#8,412
#8,412
Velo Vol said:
In exchange for what?
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Gold... they made one of their largest gold purchases back in December and last year were the world's largest purchaser of gold.

And besides, what good are all of those dollar assets/US treasuries gonna do for them if they are under sanctions? They would have limited ability use spend them in trade anyways.
 
#8,413
#8,413
CSpindizzy said:
Puppets were installed? You really are ignorant. Please tell me what puppets are there. And prove how they were installed. I will call your BS out right here. You go bat crazy on everyone's proof..I want to see proof of puppets. Fair elections in these countries. Lithuania's president is no one's puppet. She calls it like she sees it and has taken a much harder line against Soviet, er...Russian aggression.

Enough is enough? Hardly. Putin has been meddling and involved since he has been in power. The FSB has been running operations for years in all of these countries. Enough is enough? Yep, invading your neighbors because the people don't like your puppets....manly. Legal as well.

Puppets? Yanukovich is one. Good ol' Kadyrov in Chechnya. Many others all around. You really need to get out of the basement.
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Yanukovich must be the unluckiest man in the world. He was robbed of control in the elections in 2004 by USAid/National Endowment for Democracy and was then overthrown last year by these same groups backed by the State Department.

No matter how many elections he wins, he still can't hold on to power for whatever reason. I wonder why?
 
#8,416
#8,416
Rasputin_Vol said:
Yanukovich must be the unluckiest man in the world. He was robbed of control in the elections in 2004 by USAid/National Endowment for Democracy and was then overthrown last year by these same groups backed by the State Department.

No matter how many elections he wins, he still can't hold on to power for whatever reason. I wonder why?
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Proof of this? Evidence? Robbed of control? Overthrown? Evidence? So far you've offered nothing of substance. You've made some insane allegations and somehow "after the fact" action gives you the conclusion the US did something.

He won one election....want to know how he barely pulled it off? He made the promise of constitutional reform and looking at partnering with the EU. He lied on both fronts (the reason he was elected) and the people peacefully protested. He didn't like the protests so he arrested, beat, kidnapped, and killed people. They got mad at his continued unlawful, unconstitutional behavior and tucked tail and ran to his master when the people with sticks came for him. Unlucky? He's where he is because of his own actions. Luck has nothing to do with it. His own choices do. No matter how many conspiracy theories come from under the foil, none can counter that fact. He made his bed.
 
#8,417
#8,417
cspindizzy said:
proof of this? Evidence? Robbed of control? Overthrown? Evidence? So far you've offered nothing of substance. You've made some insane allegations and somehow "after the fact" action gives you the conclusion the us did something.

he won one election....want to know how he barely pulled it off? He made the promise of constitutional reform and looking at partnering with the eu. he lied on both fronts (the reason he was elected) and the people peacefully protested. He didn't like the protests so he arrested, beat, kidnapped, and killed people. They got mad at his continued unlawful, unconstitutional behavior and tucked tail and ran to his master when the people with sticks came for him. Unlucky? He's where he is because of his own actions. Luck has nothing to do with it. His own choices do. No matter how many conspiracy theories come from under the foil, none can counter that fact. He made his bed.
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this
 
#8,420
#8,420
Velo Vol said:
Amused by corporate finance?
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Amused that the western countries that those companies would be in are the ones that put sanctions on Russia in the first place.

You can't attempt to punish a country like Russia with trade sanctions and then turn around and expect them to deal with corporate debt owed to those same countries. That act might work with El Salvador or Mozambique, but Russia has leverage.
 
#8,421
#8,421
Rasputin_Vol said:
Amused that the western countries that those companies would be in are the ones that put sanctions on Russia in the first place.

You can't attempt to punish a country like Russia with trade sanctions and then turn around and expect them to deal with corporate debt owed to those same countries. That act might work with El Salvador or Mozambique, but Russia has leverage.
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Sanctions are usually due to an initial action. in your continued rants you make it sound like Russia is just little ol' innocent nation that the rest of the world is just out to punish, invade, carve up, and stick it to any way they can. Facts on the other hand show Russia is left alone until they tend to say invade other nations or say violate their signed agreements on specific nations' well being. Just wild speculation on my part but when Russia signed a "respect the sovereignty of Ukraine" treaty but violate it, you cannot expect the world to just sit back and do nothing. Sanctions did not come from thin air. Violations of signed agreements tend to cause reactions. If you cannot trust a nation's word on trade agreements, peace, borders, etc. what can you trust? Right now you are calling the murderer the victim and the spectators going after the murderer the guilty ones. See how your whole murder, weapon, etc. example really works?

As for leverage, not sure how your people suffering becomes leverage. Not sure how keeping your nation based on a single resource limited by the inability to have the tech to keep that resource flowing is leverage.
 
#8,422
#8,422
Rasputin_Vol said:
Amused that the western countries that those companies would be in are the ones that put sanctions on Russia in the first place.

You can't attempt to punish a country like Russia with trade sanctions and then turn around and expect them to deal with corporate debt owed to those same countries. That act might work with El Salvador or Mozambique, but Russia has leverage.
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Do free-standing corporations still exist in Russia? Or is everything state run now?
 
#8,423
#8,423
Velo Vol said:
Do free-standing corporations still exist in Russia? Or is everything state run now?
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Most major corporations have some government percentage of shareholders. Putin's pretty much put a lot of the control of major companies at least 51% government control. The MO is that the CEO did something to upset little Vlad and he has charges trumped up and the CEO is arrested or deported. Putin has become a nice shakedown artist.
 
#8,425
#8,425
Pacer92 said:
Prime example of how paranoid and ignorant MSM makes people..
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When you parrot pretty much word for word what an authoritarian government controlled media says....it's pretty obvious. You do realize you are regurgitating Russian MSM right? And when I say Russian MSM, it's pretty much the only M. If you repeat what a government tells you and never doubt or question it, you become a tool of that repressive government.
 
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