Trump to sign national security funding bill, then declare State of Emergency

[hog88]

Tell you what, I'm going to move into fantasy land for a couple of minutes and see @ClearwaterVol has a valid argument.

So, tell me, how will this mandatory jailing be enforced in regards to hiring illegal aliens?

Selectively like all of our laws. It wouldn’t stop all hiring of illegals but the threat of serious prison time for senior level management would persuade a bit more due diligence in hiring.

 

[hog88]

I know we've had countless posts about what we dont like about illegal immigration. Have we discussed whether we are for or against legal immigration; and what we ultimately want by allowing others to immigrate?

I posted some compromise bullet points a day or two ago and it got zero discussion.

 

[AM64]

You might be right but like I said, common sense tells me that a wall is at the very least deterrent and maintaining a wall is a lot less expensive than maning the border, the only other way to prevent people from crossing illegally would be s lot more expensive. Will there be breaches? Sure, but it's a whole lot easier to find and fix breeches than to stop people from crossing with no barriers.

It's amazing how a lot of people don't get the thing about walls and open doors and access. I'm simply amazed that Dims aren't carrying sledge hammers to get through walls when there's an open door available. It's a concept simple enough for cavemen.

 

[luthervol]

I completely disagree with the "divisively partisan" part of your comment. I've followed the illegal immigration stuff for years, and except for some weird hard left and libertarian groups, there was always a lot of across the board support for getting it under control. I thought when Obama ran the first time, someone could make illegal immigration a single issue election issue and win. Trump attempted that, and botched it with the help of screeching Hiliary.

It was a relatively bipartisan issue before Trump started in with the rapist, murderers, MS-13 nonsense.

 

[McDad]

I posted some compromise bullet points a day or two ago and it got zero discussion.

I saw those. I think the fun is in the fight for some. Not you and me of course because of our superior nature. But for the lesser folks.

 

[hog88]

but it could be to some groups. The ambiguous wording d doesn't really move the conversation forward. It would need actual requirements

Is a person with dual citizenship assimilating properly? How about a person with passports from multiple countries?

We should not allow duel citizenship or citizens to hold another countries passport.

 

[luthervol]

I posted some compromise bullet points a day or two ago and it got zero discussion.

I saw them and thought they looked pretty reasonable but then considered the source and figured it must be a trap.

 

[luthervol]

We should not allow duel citizenship or citizens to hold another countries passport.

My daughter's boyfriend is a Canadian citizen (born there), US citizen (lived here since he was five), and British citizen (his dad was born there and he is the oldest son - some archaic British law)

 

[lawgator1]

I don't agree with that. Pointing out that there are bad people illegally in this country is not appealing to the worst in people. As PJ suggested earlier, do we not have our own bad people to contend with? Why would we want bad people from other countries here? None of that suggests that ALL illegals are violent offenders, but the fact they've entered illegally means we know next to nothing about them. And I've seen no one come out against legal immigration.

The problem is the effort to paint with a large brush.

 

[AM64]

We know it won't be effective to stop drugs, illegals or gang members. We know there are far more effective ways to stem illegal immigration. eg. putting business owners in jail that hire them. But Trump is not in the least bit concerned about stopping illegal immigration. He is concerned about building a monument to himself.

Our businesses are hiring drug runners, and eVerify is going to fix it? How do you determine and successfully prosecute a corporate leader rather than a fall guy? I haven't seen many CEOs arrested and jailed; however, they are paid in the millions a year because they alone know all and control everything (think Pilot/Haslam and VW). I'd go with your plan if we really went after the businesses and created a trucking line to deliver the illegals back across the border - no questions asked and no asylum considered - just herded up and returned. And do I think our own version of the Nuremberg Trials would be entertaining ("I was just following orders" and "I had no idea what those renegades were doing"). Of course, I'm not sure what would keep the same returned illegals from walking back across the same damn open spaces ... build a wall maybe?

 

[McDad]

The problem is the effort to paint with a large brush.

Do you recommend Trump go back to finger painting?

 

[AM64]

That's where I am, too.

America, at one time, had reasonable immigration controls (i think). What happened? ..and why can we not return to things that worked in the past? If we cant go back, is it really necessary to spend the money on a wall?

Consider the Scot's win against the English at Stirling Bridge. They literally cut down an English army as it tried to cross a narrow bridge. Some hardy English could have tried to cross the river ... with the same result. Had it been a wide open plain, the story would have been very different. Barriers that limit access do work, and used correctly they are force multipliers. It simply takes fewer people to more effectively control a crowd when the access is limited.

What happened? The invaders from Mexico and points south found a better way of life on our side ... one that they themselves never made for themselves by doing something about the prevalent corruption on their own side. They found a country unwilling to turn them away and one willing to give them free benefits. It's no different than leaving food out and watching the ants march, but we didn't make the effort uninviting for illegals by simply closing off the benefits and turning people back at the border. We've given them amnesty, jobs, unearned benefits, etc; but until Trump, nobody simply stopped a caravan and said "NO".

 

[Orange_Crush]

We should not allow duel citizenship or citizens to hold another countries passport.

I think we should bring duels back for citizens. Society would get more selfless and polite overnight.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Our businesses are hiring drug runners, and eVerify is going to fix it? How do you determine and successfully prosecute a corporate leader rather than a fall guy? I haven't seen many CEOs arrested and jailed; however, they are paid in the millions a year because they alone know all and control everything (think Pilot/Haslam and VW). I'd go with your plan if we really went after the businesses and created a trucking line to deliver the illegals back across the border - no questions asked and no asylum considered - just herded up and returned. And do I think our own version of the Nuremberg Trials would be entertaining ("I was just following orders" and "I had no idea what those renegades were doing"). Of course, I'm not sure what would keep the same returned illegals from walking back across the same damn open spaces ... build a wall maybe?

If you're caught here illegally, sent home, no questions asked (after you cut huff's lawn). Second offense, you are caned and sent home with no questions asked (after you cut huff's lawn). Third offense, the death penalty (you are buried in huff's lawn as fertilizer).

 

[lawgator1]

Do you recommend Trump go back to finger painting?

Well, don't want him to hurt himself

 

[1972 Grad]

The problem is the effort to paint with a large brush.

Such as Trump supporters are knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, Walmart shopping, uneducated rubes?

 

[AM64]

It was a relatively bipartisan issue before Trump started in with the rapist, murderers, MS-13 nonsense.

So you simply object to calling a spade a spade because you think it's a racist term and not something you dig with? That about cover it? But to help you out, it's impossible to tell if someone is or is likely to be a criminal if you don't check them out first ... that implies immigration control which we don't have, and which you cannot have until you do something to physically limit access. That's not really too hard to understand.

 

[AM64]

I posted some compromise bullet points a day or two ago and it got zero discussion.

I saw that, too; but it's a can of worms. I think you have to actually get things under control before you begin talking about change. That's largely influenced by the Reagan amnesty. The amnesty happened; the control didn't, so I'm a fond believer that congress will cheat on any deal anyone makes with them until they do what it takes to get the border under control. I've had kids and heard "we'll behave" too many time to believe it, and frankly, I trust most kids more than congress.

 

[McDad]

Consider the Scot's win against the English at Stirling Bridge. They literally cut down an English army as it tried to cross a narrow bridge. Some hardy English could have tried to cross the river ... with the same result. Had it been a wide open plain, the story would have been very different. Barriers that limit access do work, and used correctly they are force multipliers. It simply takes fewer people to more effectively control a crowd when the access is limited.

What happened? The invaders from Mexico and points south found a better way of life on our side ... one that they themselves never made for themselves by doing something about the prevalent corruption on their own side. They found a country unwilling to turn them away and one willing to give them free benefits. It's no different than leaving food out and watching the ants march, but we didn't make the effort uninviting for illegals by simply closing off the benefits and turning people back at the border. We've given them amnesty, jobs, unearned benefits, etc; but until Trump, nobody simply stopped a caravan and said "NO".

I agree a lot with your perspective on physical impediments (including walls). I differ in 2 key aspects. 1. I do not think we are at war with an invading force looking to take siege. I think we are looking at opportunists hoping to improve their circumstances.
2. I think there are simpler and more cost effective ways to control illegal immigration while restoring reasonable immigration policies.

 

[luthervol]

So you simply object to calling a spade a spade because you think it's a racist term and not something you dig with? That about cover it? But to help you out, it's impossible to tell if someone is or is likely to be a criminal if you don't check them out first ... that implies immigration control which we don't have, and which you cannot have until you do something to physically limit access. That's not really too hard to understand.

That had nothing to do with what I said. Trump chose to make it a divisive issue with his calculated and completely unnecessary rhetoric. We are just seeing the obvious and expected fallout. Trump thinks he is a guy that should be able to have his cake and eat it too, and then throws a tantrum when he realizes his cake is gone.

 

[AM64]

I agree a lot with your perspective on physical impediments (including walls). I differ in 2 key aspects. 1. I do not think we are at war with an invading force looking to take siege. I think we are looking at opportunists hoping to improve their circumstances.
2. I think there are simpler and more cost effective ways to control illegal immigration while restoring reasonable immigration policies.

I realize it's not war, but crowd control and access is almost always practiced similarly. You enter Neyland through a gate, and walls block access elsewhere. That simple effect of moving people through a confined space limits the ability to go around with out producing a ticket to get in. It's a far better method than trying to address 200,000 people in a 100,000 seat stadium and who actually has the right to a seat. Stores move people through lines to verify purchases rather than randomly checking people attempting to leave a completely open building. Effective barricades just make sense.

 

[AM64]

That had nothing to do with what I said. Trump chose to make it a divisive issue with his calculated and completely unnecessary rhetoric. We are just seeing the obvious and expected fallout. Trump thinks he is a guy that should be able to have his cake and eat it too, and then throws a tantrum when he realizes his cake is gone.

OK, got it. Pointing out the obvious is "divisive" to the enlightened progressive element because their candidate lost.

 

[McDad]

I realize it's not war, but crowd control and access is almost always practiced similarly. You enter Neyland through a gate, and walls block access elsewhere. That simple effect of moving people through a confined space limits the ability to go around with out producing a ticket to get in. It's a far better method than trying to address 200,000 people in a 100,000 seat stadium and who actually has the right to a seat. Stores move people through lines to verify purchases rather than randomly checking people attempting to leave a completely open building. Effective barricades just make sense.

The last sentence is where i depart again. I have more faith in security at Neyland than I do the Federal Government to build and maintain an effective and cost-reasonable barricade.

Even with Neyland people sneak in (i assume). With stores, RFID scanners at exits sound alarms when shoplifters bypass the verification.

You haven't claimed a wall is perfect. Nor have you claimed is a solution unto itself. I haven't claimed a barrier would never be part of a larger plan.

I just believe than other steps are smarter and less costly. Keep in mind our Uncle is 22T in debt.

 

[AM64]

The last sentence is where i depart again. I have more faith in security at Neyland than I do the Federal Government to build and maintain an effective and cost-reasonable barricade.

Even with Neyland people sneak in (i assume). With stores, RFID scanners at exits sound alarms when shoplifters bypass the verification.

You haven't claimed a wall is perfect. Nor have you claimed is a solution unto itself. I haven't claimed a barrier would never be part of a larger plan.

I just believe than other steps are smarter and less costly. Keep in mind our Uncle is 22T in debt.

I know not much in life is perfect or foolproof, but I honestly haven't seen any proposal for a first step that looks better than a well designed physical barrier. It's been that way for a long time. Walls keep wind, rain, and intruders out of our houses, but a determined intruder may find a way. Historically, walls kept castles and towns safe for the most part, but they weren't perfect against an intruding army or wily smuggler (or coyote). Now if we could just put up an electric fence and force all non US citizens to wear collars ... but I'm sure the UN, animal rights groups, liberals, and numerous other strange affiliations would deem that inhumane. ... probably even countries who never agreed to the Geneva Accords.

However, all attempted humor and sarcasm aside, a barrier even though imperfect is better than nothing or a sign or a cattle fence. As far as cost, a barrier you pay for once with some upkeep seems cheaper in the long run than hordes of illegal aliens - the gifts that keep on giving - the cost never ends. Even if they become paying members of US society then there's SS, medical, education and on and on. Since we are already so far in debt, it's obvious that when it comes to taxes and benefits we already aren't paying our way ... adding to the burden doesn't seem likely to change the balance. I don't think adding to the scope is ever going to improve government efficiency, and erecting a physical barrier is a lot less complex than administering all the social programs.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Masked Protesters Invade, Deface Memorial to Fallen Border Patrol Agents

A group of masked protesters “occupied and reclaimed” a privately run Border Patrol museum located on federal land. The demonstrators defaced a memorial honoring fallen agents, curators reported.

Newly appointed Houlton Sector Chief Patrol Agent Jason Owens tweeted a shocking message that a group of masked protesters “occupied and reclaimed” the Border Patrol Museum and defaced the fallen agent memoria. He called the memorial a “very sacred monument.”
https://twitter.com/JOwensUSBP/status/1097258040259215361/photo/1
The tweet shows the memorial after protesters placed placards over the faces of U.S. Border Patrol agents who were killed in the line of duty. The photos also show the protesters walking around inside the museum, wearing masks in an apparent effort to intimidate staff.

The pictures on the placards included images of three children. One of the children was seven-year-old Jakelin Caal, the Guatemalan girl who died hours after being taken into custody, the Washington Examiner reported. Caal died from a blood condition she would have acquired prior to entering the U.S., an autopsy found.

Museum director David Ham told the Examiner that cameras picked up the protesters outside the remote facility near El Paso, Texas. The video showed the group putting on masks before entering the property. Ham said that about 50 protesters entered the facility and refused to leave. Staff called 911 and military police from Fort Bliss responded.

“They proceeded to set up a bunch of signs and just went all over the museum. They, of course, had an agenda, they were chanting and singing songs, and then a couple of them got on a bullhorn,” Ham explained. “We had visitors in the museum. They started talking and kind of harassing them. Of course, the staff was asking them to leave, and they wouldn’t leave.”

The group calls itself “Tornillo: The Occupation.” In a Facebook post, the group shows a photo of a Border Patrol agent mannequin with a placard pasted onto it mouth.

Due to the remote nature of the facility and the fact that it is on federal land, military police from Fort Bliss responded to the incident and detained the protesters while they documented the scene and identified subjects. It appears no protesters were arrested at the scene.

Masked Protesters Invade, Deface Memorial to Fallen Border Patrol Agents