Too much ice

#12,077
#12,077
Weezer said:
ICE is acting wrongly, but your hyperbole takes it a step too far IMO. Comparing Ice supporters, and thus ICE itself to Nazis and the Holocaust? Innocent people have been killed, and ICE is in the wrong, but we are nowhere near what the Nazis actually did.
Click to expand...

You think they have to be as bad as the Nazis to say their supporters are the same brand of people that got carried away in similar circumstances in a country with fewer chscks and balances?

ICE has made 4,400 illegal arrests, they violated 100 court orders just last month, they've killed like 30 people in a year....they will never be as bad as the Nazis because we won't let them be, but that doesn't excuse them of anything. They are currently being as bad as we will let them be. I'm not sure why anybody thinks they wouldn't be doing mass murder if we let them.
 
#12,078
#12,078
n_huffhines said:
You think they have to be as bad as the Nazis to say their supporters are the same brand of people that got carried away in similar circumstances in a country with fewer chscks and balances?

ICE has made 4,400 illegal arrests, they violated 100 court orders just last month, they've killed like 30 people in a year....they will never be as bad as the Nazis because we won't let them be, but that doesn't excuse them of anything. They are currently being as bad as we will let them be. I'm not sure why anybody thinks they wouldn't be doing mass murder if we let them.
Click to expand...
I acknowledged they had overstepped their boundaries. Didn't argue that point. Just said you were engaging in extreme hyperbole by comparing them and their supporters to the Nazis, which you basically admit with this point. They're bad, but not to that level. It was a lazy comparison, IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orangeslice13 and MemphisVol77
#12,079
#12,079
Weezer said:
George Washington correctly predicted political parties would wreck the country. Warned against their dangers.
Click to expand...
Seems we've failed to take heed of a few critical warnings. I'd rate Eisenhower's warnings about the MIC a close 2nd behind Washington's warnings about political parties. Eisenhower Warns of a Military Industrial Complex in Farewell Address | Eisenhower Foundation We've managed to build around 750-800 military bases in approximately 80 countries, but we couldn't secure our own borders? Our problems compound and exasperate behind generations of incompetence and corruption.

Nobody would like my solution if I were king. Millions more would be deported, but even more millions would receive naturalization as the path would be streamlined.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orangeslice13 and Weezer
#12,080
#12,080
Apparently, ICE agents are not being trained properly. If someone interferes with their duty, arrest them for interfering with a federal agent, don't shoot them. We do need to be able to enforce our own immigration laws, which means deporting people who have entered this country illegally, but ICE doesn't seem to have a grasp on how to do it in a proper way. There are laws for how to get here. Yes, we need to reform some of those laws and processes for citizenship, but it's still no excuse for crossing our borders illegally. If you want to be a citizen of this country, follow the laws. This country is made of immigrants but follow the correct process to come here. And ICE agents need to be trained properly in crowd control and apprehension. It's not okay to just kill people.
 
#12,081
#12,081
n_huffhines said:
They are currently being as bad as we will let them be. I'm not sure why anybody thinks they wouldn't be doing mass murder if we let them.
Click to expand...
Common sense and Hanlons razor.

In 2025, .0136% of immigrants booked into custodial detention by ICE died between January and Septeber. Or conversely, 99.98632% of immigrants booked into detention survived.

If you were to calculate it simply by arrest and not booking or detention, the survival rate increases.
www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org

New Report Details ICE’s Expanding and Increasingly Unaccountable Detention System - American Immigration Council

In just one year, the number of people ICE is detaining has shot up by over 75%, with a record 73,000 people detained as of mid-January.
www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org

In 2017, people the police attempted to arrest had a survival rate of 99.98617%. Or conversely, .0138% of attempted arrests resulted in fatalities.
I don't know where to get the numbers for pre-trial booking & detention deaths outside of arrests. I'd wager the numbers hold up and immigrants have a slightly higher survival percentage.

I don't post this comparison to excuse or justify any negligent/criminal killing by LEO'S. They should be held accountable and prosecuted wherever warranted.

I posted this to show that humans and LEO are imperfect, and it scales out. Once again you've posted absurd 'NAzI & HoLoCaUSt' hyperbole and their isn't some stupid agenda or desire to commit mass murder.
 

Attachments

  • Ice_004009_Chrome.jpg
    Ice_004009_Chrome.jpg
    80.8 KB · Views: 2
Last edited:
#12,083
#12,083
n_huffhines said:
You think they have to be as bad as the Nazis to say their supporters are the same brand of people that got carried away in similar circumstances in a country with fewer chscks and balances?

ICE has made 4,400 illegal arrests, they violated 100 court orders just last month, they've killed like 30 people in a year....they will never be as bad as the Nazis because we won't let them be, but that doesn't excuse them of anything. They are currently being as bad as we will let them be. I'm not sure why anybody thinks they wouldn't be doing mass murder if we let them.
Click to expand...
You can disagree with ICE methods, but they aren't making "illegal arrests", that's just leftist rhetoric.

They are doing the same things they have done since their existence (and BP before that)

They haven't "killed" any more people than they did under Biden and Obama.

They aren't nazis, that's just silly.....at least argue on the legal points
 
  • Like
Reactions: appvol
#12,084
#12,084
MemphisVol77 said:
Common sense and Hanlons razor.

In 2025, .0136% of immigrants booked into custodial detention by ICE died between January and Septeber. Or conversely, 99.98632% of immigrants booked into detention survived.

If you were to calculate it simply by arrest and not booking or detention, the survival rate increases.
www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org

New Report Details ICE’s Expanding and Increasingly Unaccountable Detention System - American Immigration Council

In just one year, the number of people ICE is detaining has shot up by over 75%, with a record 73,000 people detained as of mid-January.
www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org

In 2017, people the police attempted to arrest had a survival rate of 99.98617%. Or conversely, .0138% of attempted arrests resulted in fatalities.
I don't know where to get the numbers for pre-trial booking & detention deaths outside of arrests. I'd wager the numbers hold up and immigrants have a slightly higher survival percentage.

I don't post this comparison to excuse or justify any negligent/criminal killing by LEO'S. They should be held accountable and prosecuted wherever warranted.

I posted this to show that humans and LEO are imperfect, and it scales out. Once again you've posted absurd 'NAzI & HoLoCaUSt' hyperbole and their isn't some stupid agenda or desire to commit mass murder.
Click to expand...

Because we won't let them!!!

We freaked the **** out over 2 white deaths because 60% of the country has some sense of the importance of the bill of rights. If we were 80% MAGA, there is no telling what they would do. You can talk about statistics in the current situation but again, 4400 illegal arrests because we let them. We won't let them do mass murder so saying "see, it's 0.0X%" is meaningless. We don't know what they'd do if they could do it. All we know is they are awful right now with what they can get away with.

ICE and DHS resist all attempts to rein them in but you guys somehow think we aren't the reason they aren't behaving worse. You're just guessing that they're not as bad as the Nazis
 
#12,085
#12,085
Weezer said:
I acknowledged they had overstepped their boundaries. Didn't argue that point. Just said you were engaging in extreme hyperbole by comparing them and their supporters to the Nazis, which you basically admit with this point. They're bad, but not to that level. It was a lazy comparison, IMO.
Click to expand...

I didn't say they're as bad as the Nazis, I said they are the types who would have snitched on Anne Frank.

Do people think ordinary Germans knew what was happening to Jews? It's not like a snitch knew they were gonna gas them by the millions. They just thought they didn't belong and they were supporting the Nazis doing their jobs.

Cool that you acknowledged their overreach, tho.
 
Last edited:
#12,086
#12,086
n_huffhines said:
Because we won't let them!!!

We freaked the **** out over 2 white deaths because 60% of the country has some sense of the importance of the bill of rights. If we were 80% MAGA, there is no telling what they would do. You can talk about statistics in the current situation but again, 4400 illegal arrests because we let them. We won't let them do mass murder so saying "see, it's 0.0X%" is meaningless. We don't know what they'd do if they could do it. All we know is they are awful right now with what they can get away with.

ICE and DHS resist all attempts to rein them in but you guys somehow think we aren't the reason they aren't behaving worse. You're just guessing that they're not as bad as the Nazis
Click to expand...
Again, how exactly are the 4400 arrests "illegal"?

Your political handlers saying it doesn't make it so
 
  • Like
Reactions: appvol and Coy53175
#12,087
#12,087
n_huffhines said:
We freaked the **** out over 2 white deaths because 60% of the country has some sense of the importance of the bill of rights. If we were 80% MAGA, there is no telling what they would do. You can talk about statistics in the current situation but again, 4400 illegal arrests because we let them. We won't let them do mass murder so saying "see, it's 0.0X%" is meaningless.
Click to expand...
You're all over the place with contradictory logic.

"4400 illegal arrests because we let them."
Ricky has already addressed it and I mostly agree, but point of clarity? Who is the we that is letting them?

We don't let regional state, county, and municipal LE kill U.S. citizens, but a U.S. citizen is slightly more likely to be killed by the police than an illegal immigrant is to be killed by ICE.
n_huffhines said:
I'm not sure why anybody thinks they wouldn't be doing mass murder if we let them.
Click to expand...
Without statistics, all you have is conjecture. I see no statistical basis to claim they would do mass murder if they could.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceCoastVol, Orangeslice13 and Rickyvol77
#12,088
#12,088
NorthDallas40 said:
Call balls and strikes. I know you’re going to be shocked by this but not everything he does is a gift from heaven. His energy policy is great. His rapid closing of the border was a campaign policy quickly met. His foreign trade policy is a total disaster. He is one of the two most divisive president’s of my lifetime. He is a habitual liar. He’s a big government big spending socialist. He is the most overtly authoritarian president of my lifetime. There is next to nothing about his policies which align with the classical GOP platform.

I won’t choose which flavor of a 💩 sandwich tastes better. It’s clear to me you will. Even though he really doesn’t stand for any of the classical platform policies you would have adhered to

I don’t want to see Trump fail. But I’ll be damned if I offer excuses on why it’s ok when he obviously has failing polices ongoing that he won’t correct. Also his cabinet outside of Rubio are a bunch of sycophantic unqualified idiots. His choice of them for their roles is a direct reflection of his judgment
Click to expand...
It's too bad the Trump hating brain trust of the internet isn't in charge.

And fwiw, I am sorely disappointed in Pam Bondi but Kristy Noem is far better than the traitor she replaced.

Not sure what your bar for "qualified" is, but apparently no one can ever meet it even though it is irrelevant. The actual bar for 'qualification' is pretty low. It is not Trump that is divisive. It is the constant MSM/internet flamebaiting that is divisive. I haven't heard/read a single word by Trump in a long time. HE is only divisive due to the hatred constantly on display by the opposition.
 
#12,096
#12,096
MemphisVol77 said:
You're all over the place with contradictory logic.

"4400 illegal arrests because we let them."
Ricky has already addressed it and I mostly agree, but point of clarity? Who is the we that is letting them?
Click to expand...

The checks and balances have been weak in this regard. They don't follow due process. They subvert the bill of rights. But we've allowed the government to do this a lot over the years and our protections in this area are weakened. Last year we started hearing about due process violations and Trumpy people were in complete denial. Now it's totally clear, and the courts are fighting them, but not enough people care about this to thwart them. DHS is happy to take on the fight. It's not their $ and none of them ever get in any real trouble.

MemphisVol77 said:
Without statistics, all you have is conjecture. I see no statistical basis to claim they would do mass murder if they could.
Click to expand...

This is backwards. I didn't say ICE is as bad as the Nazis. Somebody else said that they are not as bad as the Nazis. They are the ones with the burden of proof. I'm saying, "how can you say that when we won't let them be?" I agree, an opinion on that is pure conjecture.

What I said is that the people who are supporting ICE are the same type of people who would have snitched on Anne Frank. Ordinary Germans did not know the extent of what was happening. Again, they didn't know they were going to gas them. They just knew that Jews were illegal and were getting arrested and deported, and that the Nazis had a job to do. They saw red flags, just as we're seeing, and ignored them.
 
Last edited:
New Posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

Advertisement



Back
Top