Too much ice

#10,051
#10,051
LSU-SIU said:
Its all a big show. The illusion that something has changed.

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#10,052
#10,052
Orange_Crush said:
Serious question: Is that what it is, or is it a response to the post-mortem deification narrative? It rings kind of hollow to enter something into evidence and then cry when it's discussed by the opposing counsel.
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This is fair and relevant for Charlie Kirk too. The deification just hadn't seemed that pervasive here to me but I acknowledge that I've seen it
 
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#10,053
#10,053
Majors said:
No sympathy for the previous victims that led to this. Instead you call it stupid. Maybe the same energy on protestors believing they can do whatever they want with no consequences.
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Laken Riley's killer was was found guilty at trial and imprisoned.

I take it you support the same for Alex Pretti's killer?
 
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#10,054
Rickyvol77 said:
You do realize that someone pointing out that the guy was an angry political cultist who was extremely violent and had threatened and assaulted LEOs on other occasions ISN'T excusing the shooting, it's stating facts?
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"Facts" that aren't in any way relevant to the topic of his death
 
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#10,055
#10,055
NashVol11 said:
No one ever suggested the previous victims had it coming or celebrated their deaths like hjeaglevol did here. Seems like the previous victims are mostly used as political fodder to defend ICE when it kills more people
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Those victims are why ICE is across the US picking up illegals. It’s a chain reaction that could have been avoided had the left secured the border. Pretti isn’t political fodder?
 
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#10,058
#10,058
BeardedVol said:
Laken Riley's killer was was found guilty at trial and imprisoned.

I take it you support the same for Alex Pretti's killer?
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You mean the illegal was found at trail and imprisoned.

But yes. And if he’s/they are found not guilty I expect you to say justice was served in the eyes of the law. It bothers you that conservatives have spoke out against the shooting. Missed your Riley post condemning illegals killing. Got a little fake rage in your beard.
 
#10,061
#10,061
Majors said:
Those victims are why ICE is across the US picking up illegals. It’s a chain reaction that could have been avoided had the left secured the border. Pretti isn’t political fodder?
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Operation Metro Surge in Minnesota isn't because of Laken Riley, if anything it's because the government wanted to round up Somalis after the fraud story. (Although this somewhat illustrates the issues with but-for cause that I referenced above)
 
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#10,062
#10,062
NashVol11 said:
This may be nitpicking and I understand your overall point, but using but-for cause to establish culpability gets dicey IMO. Like, Pretti wouldn't have been killed if not for the woman he tried to help, so is she culpable? Would people have fallen in different ways if they were wearing different boots and clothes? To me, there's always a LONG list of "this wouldn't have happened if not for _______" and people often ignore 95% of them and choose one.

That's why the law generally prefers proximate cause. Again, not saying it changes anything about the example you gave, but people using the specific "wouldn't have happened but for _____" argument is a pet peeve of mine
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A pet peeve of mine are people who (1) abuse vocabulary and concepts and (2) twist people's statements, to (a) put words in their mouths and (b) create straw men that are more easily attacked while also framing the person who said it in as negative a way as possible. It's rampant on here. Again, I won't infer motives. We can just use Hanlon's Razor.

To your nit, I believe that any discussion of outcomes should start with that which the person in question is responsible for, their own actions. That doesn't acquit the agents who fired or the girl Pretti white-nighted. But in any discussion of the outcome, the subject of his actions and culpability are on the table.

If one points out Pretti's culpability, poor decision-making and irresponsibility as someone who's (rightfully) exercising their 2A rights, and the answers are twisted into stupid and malicious "fake 2A hypocrite bootlicker!" and "So, you're saying he deserved to die, you ***hole monster!" responses, those tactics should be pointed out and ridiculed out of existence.
 
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#10,063
#10,063
Majors said:
You mean the illegal was found at trail and imprisoned.

But yes. And if he’s/they are found not guilty I expect you to say justice was served in the eyes of the law. It bothers you that conservatives have spoke out against the shooting. Missed your Riley post condemning illegals killing. Got a little fake rage in your beard.
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Careful now, you're setting yourself up to have to embrace hypocrisy at a later date.

Nevermind, forgot whom I was responding to.
 
#10,066
#10,066
NashVol11 said:
This is fair and relevant for Charlie Kirk too. The deification just hadn't seemed that pervasive here to me but I acknowledge that I've seen it
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Agreed, although from my perspective, the character-assassination began far more vehemently and perhaps earlier than the deification. Scratch that; see my last sentence. As I see it, there's a bit of a difference between saying that Pretti was very irresponsible in how he chose to exercise his 2A rights, and people misrepresenting CK's words to actually claim that he deserved everything he got, and probably his wife and kids as well.

But your point is taken and conceded. From what I saw of the initial response, painting him as a domestic terrorist... and the AI photos of him in drag... Just as heinous and uncalled for.
 
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#10,067
#10,067
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
I'm glad you are here to remind all of us this fact. 👍
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I actually don't think that is true.

A quote by Mark Twain

I know, its different this time.

If the goal is to get them gone, well, that is simple -- prosecute the employers. You wouldn't even need to have much ICE. We are at the point of just putting on shows to make you feel better, but its no real difference. They'll probably move this show to some other city in due time.
 
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#10,068
#10,068
NashVol11 said:
"Facts" that aren't in any way relevant to the topic of his death
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It was absolutely relevant to his death. If his hobby had been crocheting instead of watching ICE-Stalking Signal channels and going to ICE operations armed, he would be alive right now.


****Hanlon's Razor Disclaimer: The above in no way hints that Pretti deserved to be shot. It is a terribly and heinously sad thing that anyone who is made in the image of God needlessly lose their lives.****
 
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#10,071
#10,071
NashVol11 said:
I don't blame them, the post-murder character assassination routine is both very tired and very irritating
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Adding additional information based on his behavioral pattern is important to determining what led up to this encounter and why was he interacting in such a violent manner.

Sorry if that deflates the current narrative.
 
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#10,073
#10,073
BeardedVol said:
Careful now, you're setting yourself up to have to embrace hypocrisy at a later date.

Nevermind, forgot whom I was responding to.
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Why’s that. I stated I was for those being held accountable or exonerated. I know thats confusing for you gotcha attempt mind. So pencil you in for coming back to the board to say justice was served if they get off? If we are discussing hypocrisy. Can you show me the post where you condemned the Riley deaths? Would help soften your fake rage this week.
 
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