Too much ice

#1,502
#1,502
EasternVol said:
Neither one was justified. LTL force could have been used against Babbit and the cops could have cought and arrested the other.
I agree both put themselves in dangerous situations but being stupid shouldn't carry the death penalty.
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and you are wrong again, par for course
 
#1,503
#1,503
GVF said:
Interesting, but I'd like to see something besides The Atlantic. Maybe the revised and shortened training manual or something substantial.
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www.govexec.com

ICE more than doubled its workforce in 2025

The Trump administration has reconfigured its onboarding and training process to quickly deploy agents into the field.
www.govexec.com www.govexec.com

Sorry, couldn't find an OAN article where they reported on it.
 
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#1,504
#1,504
GVF said:
Fleeing. Attacking. Whatever the case, she was 100% being non-compliant.

Video has come out from the opposite side where you can clearly see he was struck rather well in his left leg. Not sure what page it was posted now, but it is up in here somewhere. But, it doesn't fit much liberal narrative so it has not been rolled down the pages. Coupled with the fact she was too ignorant not to be doing waht she was doing, where she was doing it....bad day for all. I am pretty well in the middle on this. But, she was wrong from the get get go and her decisions cost her her life. And unless there is pressure to sacrifice this agent, I'm seeing plenty to call it an unfortunate, yet legal shoot. Good shoot or bad shoot, the inevitable outcome was entirely her fault imo.
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Does being non-compliant merit being shot?
 
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#1,506
#1,506
LouderVol said:
I agree. It ultimately doesn't matter if the ICE agent was in the right or not, or how this case ends. what matters is if the agency gets associated with shooting Americans that is not something they can recover from. lose the faith of most/a good chunk of the nation and continued use of ICE at its current level will just lead to more issues.

The government will either respond appropriately to dispel the issues with trust, or it will ignore the issue of trust, and things get worse. unfortunately, I believe the latter is more likely.

its something I warned from the start, the cure being worse than the poison.
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My hope that Noem, Trump, Miller and co. can show real leadership on this is about nil.
 
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#1,507
#1,507
Truly a beautiful world we live in where you can be killed by federal agents and in less than 12 hours have memes/AI porn made of you.

The actual gloating online is one more sign of a very sick and dying society-- 'died for somalis that hate you award' memes already hot off the press. A liberal woman 'dying for her suicidal empathy' is already how it's being spun -- just another 'darwin awards' for these folks.

It's already being justified in MAGA land because if it isn't their whole endeavour crumbles. It has to be justified. Whoever she was, whatever she was doing, it's paramount--- it's deserved for questioning ICE authority in any capacity. And to minimise the gravity of executing a mother it will be clowned on, memed on, until the event is hidden behind ten thousand reaction images. If all of us watching Charlie Kirk being executed and a fountain of blood being put on autoplay can be buried under memes and transformed into something so derivative of the event the actual moment and event it is almost forgotten, this will be too, asap, by necessity.
 
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#1,508
#1,508
newarkvol said:
Truly a beautiful world we live in where you can be killed by federal agents and in less than 12 hours have memes/AI porn made of you.

The actual gloating online is one more sign of a very sick and dying society-- 'died for somalis that hate you award' memes already hot off the press. A liberal woman 'dying for her suicidal empathy' is already how it's being spun -- just another 'darwin awards' for these folks.

It's already being justified in MAGA land because if it isn't their whole endeavour crumbles. It has to be justified. Whoever she was, whatever she was doing, it's paramount--- it's deserved for questioning ICE authority in any capacity. And to minimise the gravity of executing a mother it will be clowned on, memed on, until the event is hidden behind ten thousand reaction images. If all of us watching Charlie Kirk being executed and a fountain of blood being put on autoplay can be buried under memes and transformed into something so derivative of the event the actual moment and event it is almost forgotten, this will be too, asap, by necessity.
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I am the farthest thing from MAGA, and while you may be correct on the awful porn AI and memes, you are wrong about her actions.

The "mother" who allowed her lesbian wife physically abuse her kids and let her put lit cigarettes out on her kids arms/legs (she lost custody of 2 out of 3 kids for good BTW) and then left the 3rd child to get paid by an NGO to go six states over and "protest/resist" federal LEO agents is to blame for her actions, just as Ashlii Babbitt was to blame for her choices leading up to her death
 
#1,509
#1,509
Rickyvol77 said:
You don't know her intent except that the FIRST felony committed was interfering/obstructing in the operation to begin with.

That is what they were arresting/detaining her for to begin with, until she committed the other felonies of fleeing/resisting arrest and aggravated assault
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The way she had the wheels turned showed her intent was to go around them. It ain't rocket science.
 
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#1,514
#1,514
EasternVol said:
She was passing him and not running over him when he fired. His life was not in danger and a reasonable person would have realized that.
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Can't agree with you there. There are multiple videos that suggest the agent was struck. But even if we give the greatest benefit of the doubt in saying he wasn't, it was still extremely close. Close enough that self-defense was by no means "unreasonable."
 
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#1,515
#1,515
Rickyvol77 said:
Assaulting a LEO agent with a vehicle while being "non-compliant" absolutely justifies it.

Read TN vs Garner and Graham vs Connor court cases for more enlightenment on the subject
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You didn't answer the question but that's no surprise. I didn't ask about any additional actions.
 
#1,516
#1,516
EasternVol said:
how is that wrong? do you think being stupid should carry the death penalty?
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Probably comes down to your definitions and how binary you're being. "Legally" justified? I suspect that he will be found legally justified. Does that mean that people believe it was an inevitable outcome and would not have been better for everyone involved if he'd reacted differently? Not I.
 
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#1,517
#1,517
EasternVol said:
She was passing him and not running over him when he fired. His life was not in danger and a reasonable person would have realized that.
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Again the 3rd video showed the officer being struck by the front of the car...you simply don't know law
 
#1,518
#1,518
Rickyvol77 said:
I am the farthest thing from MAGA, and while you may be correct on the awful porn AI and memes, you are wrong about her actions.

The "mother" who allowed her lesbian wife physically abuse her kids and let her put lit cigarettes out on her kids arms/legs (she lost custody of 2 out of 3 kids for good BTW) and then left the 3rd child to get paid by an NGO to go six states over and "protest/resist" federal LEO agents is to blame for her actions, just as Ashlii Babbitt was to blame for her choices leading up to her death
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????????????????
link??
Because that is not what I'm seeing at all.
 
#1,519
#1,519
EasternVol said:
She was passing him and not running over him when he fired. His life was not in danger and a reasonable person would have realized that.
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She was being stopped and detained & question but didn't comply with LEO orders.
She's a paid (was) antifa member from out of State to harass police & agents.
Any reasonable person w/a brain would have realized not to gamble w/your life.
 
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#1,520
#1,520
bamawriter said:
Can't agree with you there. There are multiple videos that suggest the agent was struck. But even if we give the geeatest benefit of the doubt and saying he wasn't, it was still extremely close. Close enough that self-defense was by no means "unreasonable."
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It looks like he was grazed, which doesn't change that she was passing him when he fired.
 
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#1,521
#1,521
bamawriter said:
Can't agree with you there. There are multiple videos that suggest the agent was struck. But even if we give the geeatest benefit of the doubt and saying he wasn't, it was still extremely close. Close enough that self-defense was by no means "unreasonable."
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Legally, they will judge him based on the totality of circumstances--including the amount of time he had in making the decision. I can't imagine it will be found as unjustified. But again, does that mean the outcome was good, preferrable, or inevitable? No.
 
#1,522
#1,522
EasternVol said:
how is that wrong? do you think being stupid should carry the death penalty?
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again let me type slow for you....

The fact she was being stupid or scared or wanting to kill the officer whatever went thru her mind doesn't matter at this point.

it's not the "death penalty", that is something leftists say to excuse criminal behavior after the fact.

Did she commit a felony? yes
Did the officers have a right to detain/attempt to arrest her? yes
Did she commit two more felonies one of them an assault on the officer? yes
Did the officer have a reasonable fear of being injured/killed from this assault of a resisting suspect? yes

It's a good shoot, legally 100%
 
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#1,524
#1,524
EasternVol said:
She was passing him and not running over him when he fired. His life was not in danger and a reasonable person would have realized that.
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A reasonable person would say this after watching and analyzing the video over and over. He is judged based on what a reasonable officer would do in that .5 - 1 second time frame where the incident took place. Being, him being in front of the vehicle. Not watching it on YouTube 10 times to come up with a theory on what happened.
 
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