Too much ice

#1,451
#1,451
GVF said:
AFTER she was clearly told to exit her vehicle and she did not comply. THEN they rightfully and legally approached her car.
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ICE has no authority to do traffic stops, order citizens out of their car or anything else. Their jurisdiction is undocumented immigrants; they're not cops.
 
#1,452
#1,452
NashVol11 said:
ICE has no authority to do traffic stops, order citizens out of their car or anything else. Their jurisdiction is undocumented immigrants; they're not cops.
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Up to the point of interference by a civilian I'd agree. It is illegal to impede the duties of federal LEO's. THat's why you protest correctly.

So, if you want ICE to only perform the duties of their warrants, which by your comment you are in agreement they were right in apprehending illegal immigrants, then stay the eff out the way and allow them to do their job and only their job.
 
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#1,453
#1,453
GVF said:
Good read. Sensible stances. Maybe other agencies will review in time.

But...none of that can compensate for those split second instances such as this case. The best trained and most disciplined agent on earth still faces a different decision tree when it is in the blink of an eye and a me or him reaction. None of that compensates for dealing with the daily hatred and brainwashing from the left that it is Ok and expected that they violently oppose LE.
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Appreciate you taking the time to read it. Feel free to see my edit, including the screenshot of the 2014 DHS policy related to standing in front of and shooting into cars, which seems like it does compensate for what led up to the split second instance.

I’m still fine with where I originally came down on this. If we’re giving him a margin of grace for his split second decision that turned out to be flawed, and I still think we should, then I’m not going to apply a different standard and decide that she deserved to die for hers.
 
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#1,454
#1,454
GVF said:
Up to the point of interference by a civilian I'd agree. It is illegal to impede the duties of federal LEO's. THat's why you protest correctly.
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If they thought she was doing something illegal then they should inform her she's under arrest, not illegally detain her. Like I said, they have no authority whatsoever to do that
 
#1,455
#1,455
GVF said:
Good read. Sensible stances. Maybe other agencies will review in time.

But...none of that can compensate for those split second instances such as this case. The best trained and most disciplined agent on earth still faces a different decision tree when it is in the blink of an eye and a me or him reaction. None of that compensates for dealing with the daily hatred and brainwashing from the left that it is Ok and expected that they violently oppose LE.
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IMO there is a huge difference between facing someone with a firearm vs someone in a car. I give much more leeway to an officer choosing to use deadly force when they're dealing with a person holding a firearm vs behind the wheel of a car. Outside of the violent criminal fleeing or hostage situation I don't see the need to shoot someone fleeing, get out of the way and arrest them later. Yeah, I know I'm way oversimplifying and in no way considering every scenario but to me as a general rule for LE, deadly force should almost always be used as the last resort.
 
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#1,457
#1,457
RockyTop85 said:
Appreciate you taking the time to read it. Feel free to see my edit, including the screenshot of the 2014 DHS policy related to standing in front of and shooting into cars, which seems like it does compensate for what led up to the split second instance.

I’m still fine with where I originally came down on this. If we’re giving him a margin of grace for his split second decision that turned out to be flawed, and I still think we should, then I’m not going to apply a different standard and decide that she deserved to die for hers.
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I know you lean left, but props to you as well as LG yesterday for showing enough integrity in your chosen profession to lay out hte legalities of this situation in an unbiased fashion. Totally unfortunate, but by law, and in the TN case as a base line, this will go as a good shoot.

Did she deserve to die? Who does really. But, her decisions and the circumstances facilitated that happening.
 
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#1,461
#1,461
NashVol11 said:
Seems like most people agree that she shouldn't have been shot in the head, but the admin immediately started calling her a "domestic terrorist" and "deranged leftist who tried to run him over" and it appears that MAGA is just going to parrot those blatant lies rather than disagree with them
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- She IS a paid NGO agitator brought in by a group from another state, now "terrorist" depends on a little bit more
- She did interfere and assault federal LEO officers in the middle of an operation
- The officers were well within their rights to end the threat as they did
 
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#1,463
#1,463
hog88 said:
IMO there is a huge difference between facing someone with a firearm vs someone in a car. I give much more leeway to an officer choosing to use deadly force when they're dealing with a person holding a firearm vs behind the wheel of a car. Outside of the violent criminal fleeing or hostage situation I don't see the need to shoot someone fleeing, get out of the way and arrest them later. Yeah, I know I'm way oversimplifying and in no way considering every scenario but to me as a general rule for LE, deadly force should almost always be used as the last resort.
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More than enough room for that position, and a valid position. And typically where I would reside. In general, and except that we were not in his position. We have the luxury of viewing video from several angles and arm chairing this after the fact. What will remain unknown are any exchanges from the beginning that brewed into where the vidoes begin. Before we get to see what is available, was she threatening, combatant, etc., etc., that put them on a short fuse going into what we do see?? All unanswerable.
 
#1,466
#1,466
NashVol11 said:
If they thought she was doing something illegal then they should inform her she's under arrest, not illegally detain her. Like I said, they have no authority whatsoever to do that
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She committed at least three felonies on camera, they have every authority to do it, you just don't like it
 
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#1,467
#1,467
Rickyvol77 said:
You clearly have no understanding of law enforcement duties or the actual law
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Rickyvol77 said:
She committed at least three felonies on camera, they have every authority to do it, you just don't like it
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Hilarious to say this and then act like ICE agents have "every authority" to detain whoever they feel like detaining and stand in front of their cars
 
#1,470
#1,470
NashVol11 said:
If they thought she was doing something illegal then they should inform her she's under arrest, not illegally detain her. Like I said, they have no authority whatsoever to do that
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They did not illegally detain her. They asked her to exit her vehicle and she fled and struck an officer. Detaining is not illegal until you exhaust the maximum hours of detainment without filing charges.
 
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#1,473
#1,473
NashVol11 said:
Hilarious to say this and then act like ICE agents have "every authority" to detain whoever they feel like detaining and stand in front of their cars
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all sworn local and federal LEOs have the authority to detain and arrest people who commit crimes against them yes...

You could educate yourself by actually studying law and LEO procedures
 
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#1,474
#1,474
GVF said:
They did not illegally detain her. They asked her to exit her vehicle and she fled and struck an officer. Detaining is not illegal until you exhaust the maximum hours of detainment without filing charges.
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The "maximum hours of detainment" apply to police. ICE can't detain someone without reasonable cause to believe they're undocumented
 
#1,475
#1,475
swampfoxfan said:
If she had been allowed to drive away, nothing would have happened.

If Babbitt had been allowed to continue a mass of violent mob members would have gained access to the capital building inner chambers.
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The same unarmed violent mob members that burned cities down? The violent mob members that passed through doors opened for them by Pelosi's posse? What threat did that female pose to an armed officer that could have chosen to react differently as well.
 
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