Too much ice

[InVOLuntary]

0 ice agents were attacked. Youre championing the execution of US citizens by the federal government without due process. That should be a problem for any real American patriot.

So I'm sure you were up in arms over the Ashli Babbitt "murder".

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Ice enforces laws democratically passed by Congress & signed by the President elected
by the american people. You can oppose those laws or you can campaign against them. But you do not get to incite resistance to their enforcement. You don't get to threaten them with cars and baseball bats while they enforce those laws. You could die doing so.

 

[JMSqb11]

So let's see. Trump has started a civil war, made enemies of asia, europe, and south america, is a felon and a rapist, and the right gleefully cheers for it as if these are somehow good things that will bring them greater prosperity. Once the market crashes and people are forced to see how much damage has been done, maybe then we'll come together to try to fix it. Unfortunately, it'll probably be too late then. God help us all.

This is the greatest issue with the Trump - Biden era of politics. There are plenty of reasons to not support Trump. The alternative party literally offered no candidates or platforms that were moderate or non extreme.

Literally you had one of the most generic and moderate folks in Congress in October 2023 start calling out his party's apparatus as non viable due to Biden's age and would cause Trump to slowwalk right back into the White House. What happened? He was blackballed.

Just like with Biden announcing he was running again, it was the easiest election cycles in recent history for Republicans to put up someone who was younger, had kids, no grey hairs... Yet they went with Trump because the other side stacked the deck to ensure he was the nominee.

Meanwhile all the idiots in this country are like, no biggie guys. 1 election I can see being a fluke, 2 is a trend, 3 no one has an excuse for the current environment.

 

[appvol]

This. It's be great if everyone would be remotely consistent. Think both shootings were justified? Cool. Think they were both examples of police brutality? Also cool. Condemn one and not the other? You're just playing partisan politics, and you don't actually care about what's right or wrong.

I’m conservative but if you were at the Capital protesting on January 6th and go inside like you were really going to accomplish something you might put yourself in a situation that isn’t going to be good. Just like what happened to the lady yesterday. What was she going to accomplish. Should have been at home with her 6 year old child. If people are going to say Good shouldn’t have been shot then Babbit shouldn’t have been shot either. Both put themselves in a situation for something to go wrong.

 

[GVF]

Hmm, what a coincidence.

For real though. These agitators are the same everywhere. Very strange. Inbreeding?

 

[appvol]

So let's see. Trump has started a civil war, made enemies of asia, europe, and south america, is a felon and a rapist, and the right gleefully cheers for it as if these are somehow good things that will bring them greater prosperity. Once the market crashes and people are forced to see how much damage has been done, maybe then we'll come together to try to fix it. Unfortunately, it'll probably be too late then. God help us all.

Trump hasn’t started a civil war or convicted of rape. The left did get the Felon which helped get him re elected. A lot of other countries like Trump. If you want to use the civil war thing one could say Obama started dividing the Country

 

[GVF]

Can I just say in the slow mo video, it is clear you see the front tires spin as if they are on ice or wet payment. Before gaining traction you can see the agent start to pull his gun.

I personally think there won't be a case here, but I also can see how the sound of engine revving up with the sound of tires sliding / spinning in place from a car directly in front of you would make you feel in danger to point of pulling your firearm. Especially in a split second.

Very tragic circumstance, but totally unavoidable.

Extremely avoidable. Especially if a "legal observer" is physically positioned away from the center of activity like, I don't know...an observer ???

 

[whodeycin85]

Babbit's death was 100000%justified. She literally used debris and objects trying to smash the corridor window to get in the hallway of Capitol Police and Secret Service protectee's. I find it very odd that messaging around her death "being murder" is the same type of messaging that those on the other side are using to describe yesterday.

Like I don't give a rip about affiliation.... Both women are dead because they put themselves in a situation and environment they chose. All while the authorities were acting in a legal manner in said environment. Capitol Police agent was protecting the Capitol and ICE was enforcing current law of the land immigration policy.

I agree with most of this except 1 thing...Babbit didn't use anything on the window...the window was broken by other in the crowd ..she was crawling thru it only...but she was stupid to out herself in that situation...both these should go to a GJ...but this is a good shoot and Babbits would have been deems a good shoot as well...only difference would be use of vehicle as weapons or lack of weapon in babbits case

 

[GVF]

The truth that MAGA doesn't want to admit is that the undecided that broke his way didn't vote for this. You may have. They did not. It's why the GOP is going to have their ass handed to them in the midterms. Arresting and deporting criminals was fine. Busting the asses of the random guy working an honest day was not the plan.

Where were these deportation outcries when Obama, Clinton and Bush were doing it at a far greater clip? Why is it only a bad thing when Trump does it? The reason people don't abandon Trump are the even bigger lying buffoons to associate or align with that are hte alternative. Human nature is to always choose the lesser of two evils. The fact Trump has support at all has far more negative connoations of the opposing side than it says of his supporters.

 

[whodeycin85]

Extremely avoidable. Especially if a "legal observer" is physically positioned away from the center of activity like, I don't know...an observer ???

Yea, you stop becoming an observer when your in the middle of the conflict activly blocking agents...kinda like retrieving weapons or housing kidnapped prisoners etc...take you from citizen to combatants.

 

[CobbVol]

No, but bear in mind that those points are an incomplete summary of the story.

Yea, you also need to include she was blocking the roadway, asked to exit her vehicle, her refusal to exit the vehicle, and then attempt to flee.

 

[GVF]

She did not drive her car at anyone ,she was attempting to escape.

Keep up your Trump defense in order to attack me. It's expected of you.

Escape from what exactly? Being an agitator who put herself in the middle of impeding a LE activity? From being non-complaint? From being a legal observer who was confused about where to legally observe from? Video clearly rebuts any argument that says she was innocent and murdered. She caused this entire situation with her presence where it should not have been.

 

[RockyTop85]

Looks like she was fleeing, not attacking. A bad split-second choice, but not entirely clear to me if she was trying to escape consequences or afraid of the men approaching her. That distinction makes a difference in whether I feel bad for her, but not to what happened after.

He had to react in a split second as well. His adrenaline was flowing as well. In hindsight, he probably didn’t need to shoot, but it’s tough to come up with a rule that criminalizes his split-second response without restricting law enforcement activities about which there is a more favorable consensus. I think when a car is coming at you like that, it’s a reasonable action to take, even if parsing it out in slow motion shows that it wasn’t strictly necessary.

Not a lot of interest in takes that are extremely to either side of that.

 

[GVF]

Looks like she was fleeing, not attacking. A bad split-second choice, but not entirely clear to me if she was trying to escape consequences or afraid of the men approaching her. That distinction makes a difference in whether I feel bad for her, but not to what happened after.

He had to react in a split second as well. His adrenaline was flowing as well. In hindsight, he probably didn’t need to shoot, but it’s tough to come up with a rule that criminalizes his split-second response without restricting law enforcement activities about which there is a more favorable consensus. I think when a car is coming at you like that, it’s a reasonable action to take, even if parsing it out in slow motion shows that it wasn’t strictly necessary.

Not a lot of interest in takes that are extremely to either side of that.

Fleeing. Attacking. Whatever the case, she was 100% being non-compliant.

Video has come out from the opposite side where you can clearly see he was struck rather well in his left leg. Not sure what page it was posted now, but it is up in here somewhere. But, it doesn't fit much liberal narrative so it has not been rolled down the pages. Coupled with the fact she was too ignorant not to be doing waht she was doing, where she was doing it....bad day for all. I am pretty well in the middle on this. But, she was wrong from the get get go and her decisions cost her her life. And unless there is pressure to sacrifice this agent, I'm seeing plenty to call it an unfortunate, yet legal shoot. Good shoot or bad shoot, the inevitable outcome was entirely her fault imo.

 

[Rickyvol77]

This is the greatest issue with the Trump - Biden era of politics. There are plenty of reasons to not support Trump. The alternative party literally offered no candidates or platforms that were moderate or non extreme.

Literally you had one of the most generic and moderate folks in Congress in October 2023 start calling out his party's apparatus as non viable due to Biden's age and would cause Trump to slowwalk right back into the White House. What happened? He was blackballed.

Just like with Biden announcing he was running again, it was the easiest election cycles in recent history for Republicans to put up someone who was younger, had kids, no grey hairs... Yet they went with Trump because the other side stacked the deck to ensure he was the nominee.

Meanwhile all the idiots in this country are like, no biggie guys. 1 election I can see being a fluke, 2 is a trend, 3 no one has an excuse for the current environment.

The shift of both parties the last 20 years into hating and namecalling is bad, but particularly the shift left of Dems from 2000 to now with the acceptance of the Occupy Wall St/Communist/Trans/BLM/supporting criminals/illegals agenda has been visibility insane. Their shift left CREATED MAGA and Trump to begin with.

Go back and look what the Clintons, Obama, Biden, Schumer etc said on positions in 2000 to now...they would be called right wing

 

[RockyTop85]

Fleeing. Attacking. Whatever the case, she was 100% being non-compliant.

Video has come out from the opposite side where you can clearly see he was struck rather well in his left leg. Not sure what page it was posted now, but it is up in here somewhere. But, it doesn't fit much liberal narrative so it has not been rolled down the pages. Coupled with the fact she was too ignorant not to be doing waht she was doing, where she was doing it....bad day for all. I am pretty well in the middle on this. But, she was wrong from the get get go and her decisions cost her her life. And unless there is pressure to sacrifice this agent, I'm seeing plenty to call it an unfortunate, yet legal shoot. Good shoot or bad shoot, the inevitable outcome was entirely her fault imo.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/05/31/317645125/border-patrol-releases-new-use-of-force-guidelines-critical-report

As of 2014, DHS thought that his actions leading up to it weren’t necessarily blameless and that shooting into the car isn’t consistent with policy.

But sure, let’s keep bickering about who is most at fault with limited information because which side wins the political fallout is really the most important thing here.

 

[GVF]

The shift of both parties the last 20 years into hating and namecalling is bad, but particularly the shift left of Dems from 2000 to now with the acceptance of the Occupy Wall St/Communist/Trans/BLM/supporting criminals/illegals agenda has been visibility insane. Their shift left CREATED MAGA and Trump to begin with.

Go back and look what the Clintons, Obama, Biden, Schumer etc said on positions in 2000 to now...they would be called right wing

100% true.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Escape from what exactly? Being an agitator who put herself in the middle of impeding a LE activity? From being non-complaint? From being a legal observer who was confused about where to legally observe from? Video clearly rebuts any argument that says she was innocent and murdered. She caused this entire situation with her presence where it should not have been.

Her specific location is not what got her killed. To say it was is to buttress the false narrative from the left. ICE was trying to open her door and apprehend her, not kill her for blocking the road. She was shot because she weaponized her vehicle against a federal law enforcement agent (whether it was her intent to weaponize the vehicle or not).

 

[VOLinAL]

As a prior LEO, people who are unaware need to read into Graham v. Connor and the objective reasonableness standard. Officers in use of force situations must be judged through the scope of what a reasonable officer would do without the use of hindsight. Meaning on this situation he must be judged based on actions that happened in a timeframe smaller than what it took someone to read this sentence.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I thought I read/saw where he shot through the windshield. If that the case it seems to me she was driving toward the officer.

 

[GVF]

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/05/31/317645125/border-patrol-releases-new-use-of-force-guidelines-critical-report

Good read. Sensible stances. Maybe other agencies will review in time.

But...none of that can compensate for those split second instances such as this case. The best trained and most disciplined agent on earth still faces a different decision tree when it is in the blink of an eye and a me or him reaction. None of that compensates for dealing with the daily hatred and brainwashing from the left that it is Ok and expected that they violently oppose LE.

 

[NashVol11]

Seems like most people agree that she shouldn't have been shot in the head, but the admin immediately started calling her a "domestic terrorist" and "deranged leftist who tried to run him over" and it appears that MAGA is just going to parrot those blatant lies rather than disagree with them

 

[InVOLuntary]

Seems like most people agree that she shouldn't have been shot in the head, but the admin immediately started calling her a "domestic terrorist" and "deranged leftist who tried to run him over" and it appears that MAGA is just going to parrot those blatant lies rather than disagree with them

She was a deranged leftist if she traveled from Missouri/Colorado to block and impede law enforcement. She was most likely being paid to do it. She brought this on herself. She made stupid decisions and it cost her her life.

And where was he supposed to shoot her? In the foot?

 

[GVF]

Her specific location is not what got her killed. To say it was is to buttress the false narrative from the left. ICE was trying to open her door and apprehend her, not kill her for blocking the road. She was shot because she weaponized her vehicle against a federal law enforcement agent (whether it was her intent to weaponize the vehicle or not).

AFTER she was clearly told to exit her vehicle and she did not comply. THEN they rightfully and legally approached her car. Her action induced their reaction. She was wrong every step of the way. From injecting herself as an agitator into hte midle of a crowd of agents, to refusing to comply, to fleeing, to striking and agent with her vehicle. Good shoot. Legal shoot. Bad outcome. ALL her fault from her very first decision to be where she should not have been. There is a right way to protest, and the left has brainwashed them to act unaccordingly.

 

[LouderVol]

I fear this whole thing is about to get much worse and divide this country even more, if that is imaginable.

This woman will not be the first. In the videos of the ICE agents dealing with folks blocking their way afterward, I see reasonable restraint. But some idiot is going to bring a gun and it will get real ugly, real fast.

I agree. It ultimately doesn't matter if the ICE agent was in the right or not, or how this case ends. what matters is if the agency gets associated with shooting Americans that is not something they can recover from. lose the faith of most/a good chunk of the nation and continued use of ICE at its current level will just lead to more issues.

The government will either respond appropriately to dispel the issues with trust, or it will ignore the issue of trust, and things get worse. unfortunately, I believe the latter is more likely.

its something I warned from the start, the cure being worse than the poison.