Too much ice

[Rickyvol77]

The "maximum hours of detainment" apply to police. ICE can't detain someone without reasonable cause to believe they're undocumented

They can detain ANYONE who commits crimes against them, citizens or not

 

[EasternVol]

I am in no way "cheering on ICE", but it's not exactly Ruby Ridge either when these people are actively attacking ICE agents just doing their jobs

That was hardly.an attack. If she wanted to and knew how to drive well she could have knocked down the agent beside her and actually run over the one in front of her. She was just trying to get out of Dodge.

 

[bamawriter]

The "maximum hours of detainment" apply to police. ICE can't detain someone without reasonable cause to believe they're undocumented

You're simply incorrect here. True, ICE cannot arrest for crimes outside of their jurisdiction. But interference with ICE officials is a crime within ICE's jurisdiction.

 

[Rickyvol77]

That was hardly.an attack. If she wanted to and knew how to drive well she could have knocked down the agent beside her and actually run over the one in front of her. She was just trying to get out of Dodge.

You don't know her intent except that the FIRST felony committed was interfering/obstructing in the operation to begin with.

That is what they were arresting/detaining her for to begin with, until she committed the other felonies of fleeing/resisting arrest and aggravated assault

 

[bamawriter]

That was hardly.an attack. If she wanted to and knew how to drive well she could have knocked down the agent beside her and actually run over the one in front of her. She was just trying to get out of Dodge.

Agreed. But her intent is irrelevant as far as the agent's justification.

 

[GVF]

Hilarious to say this and then act like ICE agents have "every authority" to detain whoever they feel like detaining and stand in front of their cars

You do realize even a state parks officer can detain me for illegal activity anywhere in the state and legally hold me for local officers. They are armed state certified officers. Their jurisdiction does not end at the park boundaries.

 

[hndog609]

Not a lot of interest in takes that are extremely to either side of that.

It's really starting to drive me nuts how hyperbolic the rhetoric is becoming on basically any issue where political takes can be drawn. Frankly it's pretty damn demoralizing.

When you can have a situation (not even remotely limited to this one) where both sides can have politicians, media and seemingly otherwise rational people alternately arguing

"THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER!" or "THIS IS THE MOST JUSTIFIABLE THING EVER!"

This course is heading towards real trouble if as a country we can't stop the use of intravenous ideological outrage.

 

[RockyTop85]

Pennsylvania v Mimms

Somebody needs to develop an On Star service where somebody comes on the line and tells you this stuff. Too many people watch a few YouTube videos and think they get to decide when their rights are being violated and take a choose-your-own-adventure approach to the remedy and it’s making traffic stops more unsafe.

 

[NashVol11]

You're simply incorrect here. True, ICE cannot arrest for crimes outside of their jurisdiction. But interference with ICE officials is a crime within ICE's jurisdiction.

From what I've seen they can arrest her if they see her commit a federal crime, but they have to inform her she's under arrest.

 

[bamawriter]

Somebody needs to develop an On Star service where somebody comes on the line and tells you this stuff. Too many people watch a few YouTube videos and think they get to decide when their rights are being violated and take a choose-your-own-adventure approach to the remedy and it’s making traffic stops more unsafe.

100% correct. It's why I find the sovereign citizen movement so fascinating.

 

[Orange_Crush]

ICE has no authority to do traffic stops, order citizens out of their car or anything else. Their jurisdiction is undocumented immigrants; they're not cops.

My understanding is that, as federal agents, they have every power to detain and arrest anyone who tries to obstruct their duties. Do you have proof otherwise?

 

[bamawriter]

From what I've seen they can arrest her if they see her commit a federal crime, but they have to inform her she's under arrest.

Any cop has to inform anyone that they're under arrest.

I think I may be misunderstanding you. Are you saying that "you're under arrest" had to be the first words out of their mouths?

 

[GVF]

That choice seems to be working out splendidly.

Interesting, but I'd like to see something besides The Atlantic. Maybe the revised and shortened training manual or something substantial.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Somebody needs to develop an On Star service where somebody comes on the line and tells you this stuff. Too many people watch a few YouTube videos and think they get to decide when their rights are being violated and take a choose-your-own-adventure approach to the remedy and it’s making traffic stops more unsafe.

The problem is you have the horseshoe theory here with the far far right (sovereign citizens and youtube "auditors") and the far far left (Antifa, protestors) who each think that ANY traffic stop, arrest, investigation, operation by LEO is some kind of unconstitutional power oppression and profiling, when in reality 99% of it is normal legal LE functions.

The real problem with these two groups is they really just prefer anarchy, and NO rule of law

 

[Rickyvol77]

Any cop has to inform anyone that they're under arrest.

I think I may be misunderstanding you. Are you saying that "you're under arrest" had to be the first words out of their mouths?

He also probably thinks you have to read Miranda rights at every arrest, because they do on tv and the movies

 

[GVF]

That was hardly.an attack. If she wanted to and knew how to drive well she could have knocked down the agent beside her and actually run over the one in front of her. She was just trying to get out of Dodge.

And why was she wanting, or needing, to get out of Dodge? Wasn't she innocent of any wrong doing?

 

[EasternVol]

Soccer mom? She was a paid agitator who came with her felon wife across 3 states to specifically do this.

She did hit him with the car, the 3rd video absolutely shows this.

You can disagree with ICE and their mission to arrest illegals and the ways they are doing it, but simple facts matter also

You sound like a blue and green hair nose ring face tattoo screeching about that dumbass kid in Wisconsin who shot those antifa punks, so dramatic.

 

[Orange_Crush]

He also probably thinks you have to read Miranda rights at every arrest, because they do on tv and the movies

I think you do. Just not when they detain you, since you're not under arrest at that time.

 

[bamawriter]

I think you do. Just not when they detain you, since you're not under arrest at that time.

Miranda is required before questioning. It's not required at the time of detainment or arrest.

 

[hndog609]

Agreed. But her intent is irrelevant as far as the agent's justification.

I (and others) have tried explaining this misconception. Intent of action can be adjudicated in a mens rea situation after the fact but is basically a useless metric for what is actionable at the time.

If someone was fool enough to think it would be "funny" to draw down on some cops with a realistic looking water pistol there is nothing, absolutely nothing about the "intent" being a joke that can be held against the officers. They were faced with exactly what they could process in that exact moment.

 

[JMSqb11]

The shift of both parties the last 20 years into hating and namecalling is bad, but particularly the shift left of Dems from 2000 to now with the acceptance of the Occupy Wall St/Communist/Trans/BLM/supporting criminals/illegals agenda has been visibility insane. Their shift left CREATED MAGA and Trump to begin with.

Go back and look what the Clintons, Obama, Biden, Schumer etc said on positions in 2000 to now...they would be called right wing

Yes but self identified republicans and conservatives also allowed a left center populist to take over the party just because he was pro tax cuts and tough immigration policy.

republicans were dumb enough to fall for it.

 

[GVF]

He also probably thinks you have to read Miranda rights at every arrest, because they do on tv and the movies

Miranda rights can be read at any moment of detainment up to the deadline of detainment without charges (48, 72 hours ??), at which point you must read them the rights and formally charge and arrest OR release.

Edit. Questioning rather. Not charges.

 

[EasternVol]

Babbit's death was 100000%justified. She literally used debris and objects trying to smash the corridor window to get in the hallway of Capitol Police and Secret Service protectee's. I find it very odd that messaging around her death "being murder" is the same type of messaging that those on the other side are using to describe yesterday.

Like I don't give a rip about affiliation.... Both women are dead because they put themselves in a situation and environment they chose. All while the authorities were acting in a legal manner in said environment. Capitol Police agent was protecting the Capitol and ICE was enforcing current law of the land immigration policy.

Neither one was justified. LTL force could have been used against Babbit and the cops could have cought and arrested the other.
I agree both put themselves in dangerous situations but being stupid shouldn't carry the death penalty.

 

[RockyTop85]

100% correct. It's why I find the sovereign citizen movement so fascinating.

The sovereign citizen stuff can actually be strategically effective in court if done correctly. Usually just receives some knuckle sandwiches on the street.

 

[Rickyvol77]

You sound like a blue and green hair nose ring face tattoo screeching about that dumbass kid in Wisconsin who shot those antifa punks, so dramatic.

Nope just stating actual facts. You should try it sometime and educate yourself on actual law