Too much ice

[Rickyvol77]

So ****ing what.
It’s a misdemeanor. SCOTUS has ruled that a misdemeanor doesn’t rise to the level of probable cause for requiring ID

I learned that at the same time as the ice thugs the other day.

Sometimes it’s nice to have a lawyer on speed dial.

You might want to educate yourself on the actual law, half the states have a require to ID yourself to police law, and depending ON the misdemeanor there are plenty of crimes that require you to show your ID to police if they have reasonable suspicion

 

[Orangeslice13]

BS, "they won't survive the training"

US citizens aren't incompetent and illegal Third Worlders aren't some magical crowd of hard-working geniuses....some are great workers, some are lazy, some are stupid, some are intelligent

People are people....

If you actually believe that there aren't competent US citizens who could roof, or work on houses, or do whatever, you are simply fulfilling self-fulfilling prophecy of not hiring them.

If a plant wants to hire illegal immigrants illegally as cheap labor, that's on them, they also should be fined and prosecuted.

There are several companies (even big ones) in the US that specifically are trying to get H-1 visa help from India and won't even try to openly hire any US citizens, because they know they can pay them so cheap, it makes them millions more...

It's not the US citizen's fault they want slave labor and can't or won't pay decent rates

Also funny how illegals are only hired in force in 3-4 main occupations, I worked in two very large industries as both a training/hiring position and as an executive manager and I have never ever hired an illegal immigrant, and only had one apply in 25 plus years

1000$ says you can’t do it.

 

[Orangeslice13]

You might want to educate yourself on the actual law, half the states have a require to ID yourself to police law, and depending ON the misdemeanor there are plenty of crimes that require you to show your ID to police if they have reasonable suspicion

Ya.
SCOTUS disagrees. You have to have reasonable suspicion of a crime and misdemeanor doesn’t rise to the level of random suspicion on the streets.
I’m the guy with the lawyers fighting this **** so stop saying things trying to sound smart that are stupid.

 

[Orangeslice13]

So in your "belief system", NO law enforcement officer should be involved in any search or investigation or arrest of a misdemeanor?

including:
-theft/shoplifting
-assault
-drug possession
-trespassing
-vandalism
-driving without license/insurance/causing accident
-reckless driving
-DUI
-harassment
-making threats
-forgery
-fraud
-identity theft
-impersonating a police officer
-disorderly conduct
-public intoxication
-resisting arrest
-domestic violence
-possession of child porn
-stalking
-violating a restraining order
-indecent exposure

and so on and so on....what do you think police arrest gang members, rapists, and other criminals FOR usually?

I think being Mexican doesn’t give reasonable suspicion of any crime being committed. I believe walking around and someone shoplifting somewhere doesn’t give reasonable grounds to ask for my ID.
Pesky little 4th and whatnot.

Now in the corse of duty police arrested someone for stealing and then find out their illegal then call ice.

I believe a paramilitary that attacks tax payers and is poorly trained and clueless on the law is a horrible use of my tax dollars and my personal dollars hiring a lawyer to prove them wrong.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I love when people who have no ****ing clue what it takes to build tell me hiring qualified people is no problem.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Ya.
SCOTUS disagrees. You have to have reasonable suspicion of a crime and misdemeanor doesn’t rise to the level of random suspicion on the streets.
I’m the guy with the lawyers fighting this **** so stop saying things trying to sound smart that are stupid.

A MISDEMEANOR IS A CRIME, if someone commits a misdemeanor and the police have reasonable suspicion they absolutely can identify and detain the guy

There are 25 Stop and ID states where the law requires you to identify yourself or risk a separate charge in itself.

An officer just has to have reasonable suspicion that you are, have, or about to commit a crime (EITHER misdemeanor or felony) to investigate and identify

 

[Rickyvol77]

I think being Mexican doesn’t give reasonable suspicion of any crime being committed. I believe walking around and someone shoplifting somewhere doesn’t give reasonable grounds to ask for my ID.
Pesky little 4th and whatnot.

Now in the corse of duty police arrested someone for stealing and then find out their illegal then call ice.

I believe a paramilitary that attacks tax payers and is poorly trained and clueless on the law is a horrible use of my tax dollars and my personal dollars hiring a lawyer to prove them wrong.

You are too emotional on this subject and it clearly highlights your ignorance of the criminal justice system and laws in general.

No one said "because you are mexican is reasonable suspicion", I corrected your incorrect statement that police can't ask someone for ID who committed a misdemeanor

You really believe that police have no right to ID a shoplifter? on what planet do you think that's a 4th amendment issue

 

[Orangeslice13]

A MISDEMEANOR IS A CRIME, if someone commits a misdemeanor and the police have reasonable suspicion they absolutely can identify and detain the guy

There are 25 Stop and ID states where the law requires you to identify yourself or risk a separate charge in itself.

An officer just has to have reasonable suspicion that you are, have, or about to commit a crime (EITHER misdemeanor or felony) to investigate and identify

And those laws are struck down every time they are challenged
SCOTUS has ruled so now they disappear on summary judgment. You do not have to ID yourself for walking down the street minding your own business

 

[Orangeslice13]

You are too emotional on this subject

 

[Rickyvol77]

And those laws are struck down every time they are challenged
SCOTUS has ruled so now they disappear on summary judgment. You do not have to ID yourself for walking down the street minding your own business

That's not what was said by you, you are incorrect on two things

1) SCOTUS has given police the right to investigate, detain, and ID anyone when they can articulate an reasonable suspicion a crime has been, is being, or might be committed
2) A misdemeanor IS a crime and falls under these categories...if you are caught shoplifting, jaywalking, loitering or tons of other laws on the book, they absolutely can detain, arrest and force you to ID yourself

and in 25 states, you have to ID yourself to police or it's a separate charge.

.....those laws have not been "struck down" and you are completely wrong to suggest police ID'ing you for shoplifting is a violation of the 4th Amendment

now you threw in "being a mexican isn't reasonable suspicion" and that's true generally speaking, but you also suggested they can't ID you for misdemeanors which is a completely wrong statement

 

[Orangeslice13]

True story.
I’ve came to a friend’s job site I was visiting. They asked for IDs and didn’t get them from anyone. With the lawyer on speaker phone the local sheriff made ice leave for trespassing.

You have to have a legitimate probable cause to be required to show your ID. Being Mexican isn’t enough. Being a human near where shoplifting happens isn’t enough. Your rights as a citizen don’t go away because it makes a police officer’s job more difficult.

It’s just that simple

 

[Orangeslice13]

That's not what was said by you, you are incorrect on two things

That’s exactly what I’ve said over and over.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Because someone is Mexican doesn’t mean you can ask for their ID

 

[Rickyvol77]

True story.
I’ve came to a friend’s job site I was visiting. They asked for IDs and didn’t get them from anyone. With the lawyer on speaker phone the local sheriff made ice leave for trespassing.

You have to have a legitimate probable cause to be required to show your ID. Being Mexican isn’t enough. Being a human near where shoplifting happens isn’t enough. Your rights as a citizen don’t go away because it makes a police officer’s job more difficult.

It’s just that simple

LOL that's not what you said, you said

"you have to have reasonable suspicion of a crime and misdemeanor doesn’t rise to the level of random suspicion on the streets"

If police have reasonable suspicion you committed ANY crime, they can detain and force your ID, including all misdemeanors

You are talking about an incident they didn't, but again that's not what you said in your posts.

The Supreme Court has absolutely ruled that police can investigate, identify, and detain anyone with articulable reasonable suspicion.

Thus if I get a call that a W/M in a red shirt and white ball cap, just shoplifted from a gas station, and on the way I see a W/M with those clothes just "minding their own business walking down the street" I absolutely can stop and force their ID through detainment even if it's the wrong guy

 

[Orangeslice13]

LOL that's not what you said, you said

"you have to have reasonable suspicion of a crime and misdemeanor doesn’t rise to the level of random suspicion on the streets"

it doesn’t.
If I’m outside Walmart and someone shoplifted my presence doesn’t allow the police to ask for my ID. They have to have more information/reasonable cause to interrupt my day.
If someone is murdered in Walmart my existence there gives them probable cause to ask for my ID.
That’s how it’s been ruled over and over.

So, being Mexican is not a reason to ask for ID on a job site.
They have to have the name of the person they are looking for and a reasonable suspicion that is who they are trying to ID.



I get that you don’t like it but the 4th doesn’t care about you feelies

 

[Rickyvol77]

it doesn’t.
If I’m outside Walmart and someone shoplifted my presence doesn’t allow the police to ask for my ID. They have to have more information/reasonable cause to interrupt my day.
If someone is murdered in Walmart my existence there gives them probable cause to ask for my ID.
That’s how it’s been ruled over and over.

So, being Mexican is not a reason to ask for ID on a job site.
They have to have the name of the person they are looking for and a reasonable suspicion that is who they are trying to ID.



I get that you don’t like it but the 4th doesn’t care about you feelies

if there is reasonable suspicion you are involved they can ID you period...regardless of the crime

If you are sitting in a car in front of the door the shoplifter was running towards OR if you are pointed out by the walmart worker saying "I think that guy is with him", the police can articulate that and make you identify youself through investigation whether you are actually involved or not.

that's what reasonable suspicion is....the severity of the crime DOES NOT MATTER

and no one said "ONLY BEING MEXICAN IS REASONABLE SUSPICION", that's your strawman because you are mad you have to hire lawyers for employing illegal criminals

 

[Smokey123]

LOL that's not what you said, you said

"you have to have reasonable suspicion of a crime and misdemeanor doesn’t rise to the level of random suspicion on the streets"

If police have reasonable suspicion you committed ANY crime, they can detain and force your ID, including all misdemeanors

You are talking about an incident they didn't, but again that's not what you said in your posts.

The Supreme Court has absolutely ruled that police can investigate, identify, and detain anyone with articulable reasonable suspicion.

Thus if I get a call that a W/M in a red shirt and white ball cap, just shoplifted from a gas station, and on the way I see a W/M with those clothes just "minding their own business walking down the street" I absolutely can stop and force their ID through detainment even if it's the wrong guy

You sure about that?

 

[Rickyvol77]

You sure about that?
View attachment 818777

might want to lay off the AI

all a police officer has to do is articulate the reasonable suspicion using any number of factors including description, this AI slop is talking about a shopkeeper's requirement that they could be civilly sued (which is a lower standard). This is referring to a store owner can't detain someone they "heard" might have stolen in the past wearing similar clothes

This doesn't refer to LEO receiving info in real time and using articulation to justify detaining a suspect

 

[Smokey123]

might want to lay off the AI

all a police officer has to do is articulate the reasonable suspicion using any number of factors including description, this AI slop is talking about a shopkeeper's requirement that they could be civilly sued (which is a lower standard). This is referring to a store owner can't detain someone they "heard" might have stolen in the past wearing similar clothes

This doesn't refer to LEO receiving info in real time and using articulation to justify detaining a suspect

It literally sites the law lol

 

[Orangeslice13]

and no one said "ONLY BEING MEXICAN IS REASONABLE SUSPICION", that's your strawman because you are mad you have to hire lawyers for employing illegal criminals

ya, it’s not strawman. That’s exactly what they’re doing. It’s their number one tactic. It’s why they were kicked off my buddies job site. It was the whole conversation when you joined in just now.

I get that you don’t live in a world where you experience other people and don’t like the spin of Brown people bad, but the rest of us are talking about reality

 

[Orangeslice13]

It literally sites the law lol

I’m done with this stupidity.
I literally watched it go down in front of me.
I learned that everyone should have a lawyer on speed dial because enforcement either doesn’t know the law or hopes you don’t

 

[Rickyvol77]

It literally sites the law lol

It "cites" discussing shopkeepers and their security's role in detaining suspected shoplifters

Educate yourself on the actual law pertaining to law enforcement. Start with the definition of Reasonable Suspicion and Terry vs Ohio and go from there..

If you believe that police can't stop a random guy matching a description of a suspected crime suspect (misdemeanor OR felony, guilty OR innocent) I suggest you try it out LOL

 

[Rickyvol77]

I’m done with this stupidity.
I literally watched it go down in front of me.
I learned that everyone should have a lawyer on speed dial because enforcement either doesn’t know the law or hopes you don’t

yea be sure to tell the judge how police has no right to detain for misdemeanor crimes.

Stick to your lane and don't hire criminals

 

[Rickyvol77]

ya, it’s not strawman. That’s exactly what they’re doing. It’s their number one tactic. It’s why they were kicked off my buddies job site. It was the whole conversation when you joined in just now.

I get that you don’t live in a world where you experience other people and don’t like the spin of Brown people bad, but the rest of us are talking about reality

Weird I have worked with tons of people of all ethnic backgrounds and hired them and supervised them and never had this issue one time, across two different states.

But then again I don't hire illegals

 

[Orangeslice13]

yea be sure to tell the judge how police has no right to detain for misdemeanor crimes.

Stick to your lane and don't hire criminals

It won’t get to the judge. I just hit 1 on speed dial and exercise my 1st amendment right to tell them how they suck at their job while waiting on the Law dude to answer. **** the police. They’re just another person who has to follow the law like everyone else.