To Protect and to Serve...

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#3,551
#3,551
therealUT said:
Indeed, yet still highly unlikely. But, if the argument is that we should continue to attack speeding as we currently do because it makes it more likely that an accident will occur, then why not shut down roads during dusk? Probably because those who think safety takes precedence over liberty also think production takes precedence over safety...?
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I honestly don't have stats to back this up, but I'd be willing to bet the fines for traffic violations make up a very small percentage of income for LE just about anywhere. There are far more lucrative ways of generating income than a $40 fine for running a stop sign.
 
#3,552
#3,552
Grand Vol said:
I honestly don't have stats to back this up, but I'd be willing to bet the fines for traffic violations make up a very small percentage of income for LE just about anywhere. There are far more lucrative ways of generating income than a $40 fine for running a stop sign.
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I'm not concerned much with the revenue side of it.
 
#3,553
#3,553
Grand Vol said:
No. Most of the Autobahn traffic is monitored by cameras these days and they mail you a nice ticket. The only time you really see a traffic cop is in the towns and cities.

OMG Cameras! Surveillance! Where's my tin foil?!?!?!?!
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Yeah.. my point was that driving in the "fast" lane... what they call the "passing" lane will get you a ticket. Of course here that would be considered fascist. After all, you have the right to drive in whatever lane you want, right?

And I am all for stop light cameras.... good revenue stream, and they save lives.
 
#3,557
#3,557
Grand Vol said:
It also takes into account probable weather conditions, material construction, coefficient of friction of said surface, safety equipment, superelevation (or lack thereof on older roads) and wear of the roadway over its lifespan.
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Exactly. Most of the variables used for designing the road are empirically tested separately and then pieced together in one nifty (yet practically useless) formula that has multiple apology factors in it. These factors are basically admittance that the engineers don't really have a good idea of how all these factors play together, so they'll just take the conservative approach and force the people to drive slower than they might need to.
 
#3,559
#3,559
SpaceCoastVol said:
Yeah.. my point was that driving in the "fast" lane... what they call the "passing" lane will get you a ticket. Of course here that would be considered fascist. After all, you have the right to drive in whatever lane you want, right?

And I am all for stop light cameras.... good revenue stream, and they save lives.
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Sure it's a "law" over there, but not something that is enforced. It's more of a guideline and proper etiquette on the roadway rather than a hard and fast rule.

I'm entirely opposed to traffic camera systems that involve a third party.
 
#3,562
#3,562
Grand Vol said:
Sure it's a "law" over there, but not something that is enforced. It's more of a guideline and proper etiquette on the roadway rather than a hard and fast rule.

I'm entirely opposed to traffic camera systems that involve a third party.
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I have seen more than a few people run thru red lights when a turn arrow goes green. Know why? Texting. It is a fact of our culture at this moment in time that people are gonna text and drive. Just like they are gonna drink and drive. Blowing thru an intersection is dangerous. No way ANYBODY can defend that. Maybe if their parents get a ticket in the mail there will be an adjustment made. And maybe.. it will save a life.

And I get what you are saying about the Autobahn. I'm not arguing the point other than to say there is a cultural difference that makes a comparison between them and us difficult...
 
#3,563
#3,563
SamRebel35 said:
Exactly. Most of the variables used for designing the road are empirically tested separately and then pieced together in one nifty (yet practically useless) formula that has multiple apology factors in it. These factors are basically admittance that the engineers don't really have a good idea of how all these factors play together, so they'll just take the conservative approach and force the people to drive slower than they might need to.
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The critical speed formula is not a useless formula. Again, it's something that's been independently tested the world over and works time and time again. And it does take all the factors together into the same formula instead of testing them separately.
 
#3,564
#3,564
SpaceCoastVol said:
I have seen more than a few people run thru red lights when a turn arrow goes green. Know why? Texting. It is a fact of our culture at this moment in time that people are gonna text and drive. Just like they are gonna drink and drive. Blowing thru an intersection is dangerous. No way ANYBODY can defend that. Maybe if their parents get a ticket in the mail there will be an adjustment made. And maybe.. it will save a life.

And I get what you are saying about the Autobahn. I'm not arguing the point other than to say there is a cultural difference that makes a comparison between them and us difficult...
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I'm not opposed to traffic cameras that are controlled and utilized correctly by police. I draw the line when an independent company uses them for their own revenue generation.
 
#3,565
#3,565
Grand Vol said:
I'm not opposed to traffic cameras that are controlled and utilized correctly by police. I draw the line when an independent company uses them for their own revenue generation.
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Oh absolutely. I didn't know that was even an option. Is it someone's protection agency that is doing that? :hi: I'll tell them to go F themselves. I'm not paying a private corporation anything if they put up a traffic camera.
 
#3,566
#3,566
Obsessed said:
You put the death squarely on the officers?


TRUT, I know you have had "words" with officers before. But have you ever been arrested?
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First and last time I was arrested I was 16.

And, yes, I place Garner's death squarely and solely on the officers involved.
 
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#3,568
#3,568
Grand Vol said:
The critical speed formula is not a useless formula. Again, it's something that's been independently tested the world over and works time and time again. And it does take all the factors together into the same formula instead of testing them separately.
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I think you may be looking at this from a forensic perspective. I'm looking at it from a design perspective. Roadway design isn't even close to being something where there is clear concensus on all variables and formulations among engineers. It very much is a Voodoo science. I see how it actually must be a Voodoo science because there are so many variables that do not have very reliable data to go off of, thus safety factors are used to adjust the results. It is a cya thing in a lot of instances.
 
#3,569
#3,569
SpaceCoastVol said:
Yeah, poor obese Eric Garner... just minding his own business when cops came up and killed him...:cray:
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I don't care whether or not he was minding his own business. I care that he was neither injuring others nor damaging property. I care that even in "resisting arrest", he never once took a swing at any of the officers, never once made an effort to injure any of them, but solely made efforts to release himself from their murderous grip.
 
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#3,570
#3,570
therealUT said:
I don't care whether or not he was minding his own business. I care that he was neither injuring others nor damaging property. I care that even in "resisting arrest", he never once took a swing at any of the officers, never once made an effort to injure any of them, but solely made efforts to release himself from their murderous grip.
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The only murderous grip that got him was the consumption of too much fat.
 
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#3,571
#3,571
therealUT said:
First and last time I was arrested I was 16.

And, yes, I place Garner's death squarely and solely on the officers involved.
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I have been arrested twice.

1997- DUI. Was completely warranted.

2000- public intox. (Drinking a beer while mowing my grass (not warranted)

Neither time I resisted. I complied and saw my day in court. By he dui took a lot of money but went away. The PI was dismissed. I actually broke the law, but the judge thought it was ridiculus.

Obviously I didn't die. Point being, take it up with the courts. Not the cops.
 
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#3,573
#3,573
SamRebel35 said:
I think you may be looking at this from a forensic perspective. I'm looking at it from a design perspective. Roadway design isn't even close to being something where there is clear concensus on all variables and formulations among engineers. It very much is a Voodoo science. I see how it actually must be a Voodoo science because there are so many variables that do not have very reliable data to go off of, thus safety factors are used to adjust the results. It is a cya thing in a lot of instances.
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The design perspective affects the forensic perspective. I won't deny that most modern roadways are built with a considerable amount of safety margin. But the data is generally conclusive in the construction and the formulas used. Coefficient of friction for example is an equation that's used worldwide and an accepted standard.

Most US Interstate roadways generally have a critical speed of at least 150 MPH or more. So I agree there is a considerable amount of safety built into the system as that speed relies greatly on conditional factors. I'm not sure what textbook they recommended for your class, but the formulas used are, again, the worldwide standard.
 
#3,574
#3,574
Obsessed said:
I have been arrested twice.

1997- DUI. Was completely warranted.

2000- public intox. (Drinking a beer while mowing my grass (not warranted)

Neither time I resisted. I complied and saw my day in court. By he dui took a lot of money but went away. The PI was dismissed. I actually broke the law, but the judge thought it was ridiculus.

Obviously I didn't die. Point being, take it up with the courts. Not the cops.
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I did not resist when I was sixteen, in part because I was sixteen, in part because I had just committed assault.

However, as an adult who understands my rights, both moral and Constitutional, I do not simply comply with any request anyone, including cops, makes of me.
 
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#3,575
#3,575
Grand Vol said:
I honestly don't have stats to back this up, but I'd be willing to bet the fines for traffic violations make up a very small percentage of income for LE just about anywhere. There are far more lucrative ways of generating income than a $40 fine for running a stop sign.
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In riot-hit Ferguson, traffic fines boost tension and budget | Reuters

Traffic fines are the St. Louis suburb's second-largest source of revenue and just about the only one that is growing appreciably. Municipal court fines, most of which arise from motor vehicle violations, accounted for 21 percent of general fund revenue and at $2.63 million last year, were the equivalent of more than 81 percent of police salaries before overtime.
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