To Protect and to Serve...

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#2,452
#2,452
Gannon Goodson said:
Just comply, right? I hear that a lot from law enforcement. To me, it's the definition of a police state. I'm developing a new-found problem with authority and I/we will not comply. I'm not turning over my personal information so it can be run through NCIC and my name, DOB, and any other pertinent information can be put on a report/log generated by the contact.

It's none of your business who I am or what I'm doing.
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Within reason I don't see anything unreasonable about checking out the gun the guy is open carrying. Concealed would be a different ballgame imo
 
#2,456
#2,456
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#2,457
#2,457
tim said:
Tickets are, by in large, a huge issue with how people view the police. Nobody likes getting a ticket and in your case the officer could've said anything from "have a nice day" to "go f yourself" and you'd feel the same about your interaction with him. It is what it is, you got a ticket, he wrote a ticket. There is no good answer for this, you should've been doing the speed limit, he could've warned you...
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That's untrue and is emblematic of the lack of connection LEO has with the citizenry. If I'm speeding and get pulled over, I expect a ticket and hold no hard feelings for getting pulled over/ticketed. If I am speeding and you use it as an opportunity to invade my personal life, it is offensive.

You truly are clueless.
 
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#2,459
#2,459
tim said:
You're such a rebel.

Hasnt hurt me either. Nor has it hurt anyone that I am friends with. Nor my family. I have seen it hurt a criminal or two tho.
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Hurt me to the tune of $5000 in lawyer fees when they arrested my daughter on suspicion of distribution due to no other evidence than her pocketbook being in proximity to paraphernalia in someone else's house when she'd been out of state for 12 hours and returned to get her stuff.

She answered their questions honestly. They arrested her to try to get leverage on the guy they thought was actually guilty. My daughter spent the night in jail and ended up in "Just busted". Did I mention the $5000 retainer and bail money I had to eat?

They only dropped the charges the day of the arraignment because we were able to show that the detective had lied on the police report. The detective asked the DA to drop all charges.

In this 'war on drugs', collateral damage of the innocent means nothing.

NOTHING.

Until LEO begins respecting the citizenry it's protecting, this divide and lack of trust will continue to exist, and it's not the average citizen's fault.
 
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#2,460
#2,460
Orange_Crush said:
Until LEO begins respecting the citizenry it's protecting, this divide and lack of trust will continue to exist, and it's not the average citizen's fault.
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It won't happen. We've already gone to far down the slippery slope. You can see it when police officers like GrandVol snicker at comments about police using drug dogs to give false alerts, even though we see countless videos about them using police dogs to give false alerts and then not finding any drugs.

Most cops are corrupt, and very few are good people. There need to be more laws that allow people to protect themselves from police just as the would from any other citizen. If a cop tries to illegally enter my home or my car, I should be able to shoot him in self defense. It's not acceptable that they can shoot anyone if they feel "threatened," but citizens are not allowed to protect themselves when their lives are in danger from police.
 
#2,461
#2,461
Orange_Crush said:
Hurt me to the tune of $5000 in lawyer fees when they arrested my daughter on suspicion of distribution due to no other evidence than her pocketbook being in proximity to paraphernalia in someone else's house when she'd been out of state for 12 hours and returned to get her stuff.

She answered their questions honestly. They arrested her to try to get leverage on the guy they thought was actually guilty. My daughter spent the night in jail and ended up in "Just busted". Did I mention the $5000 retainer and bail money I had to eat?

They only dropped the charges the day of the arraignment because we were able to show that the detective had lied on the police report. The detective asked the DA to drop all charges.

In this 'war on drugs', collateral damage of the innocent means nothing.

NOTHING.

Until LEO begins respecting the citizenry it's protecting, this divide and lack of trust will continue to exist, and it's not the average citizen's fault.
Click to expand...

This is where tim comes in and says that your daughter was done a service. This serves as a wake up call for her to find new friends that don't do naughty things. You should write the cop a thank you letter. Etc.
 
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#2,462
#2,462
davethevol said:
It won't happen. We've already gone to far down the slippery slope. You can see it when police officers like GrandVol snicker at comments about police using drug dogs to give false alerts, even though we see countless videos about them using police dogs to give false alerts and then not finding any drugs.

Most cops are corrupt, and very few are good people. There need to be more laws that allow people to protect themselves from police just as the would from any other citizen. If a cop tries to illegally enter my home or my car, I should be able to shoot him in self defense. It's not acceptable that they can shoot anyone if they feel "threatened," but citizens are not allowed to protect themselves when their lives are in danger from police.
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Show me on the doll where every officer in America touched you. You have some deep psychological issues with cops if you think they are corrupt. They're men and women just like you and me out there doing a job that's hard and unfortunately has an aspect to it that no one likes (getting pulled over for traffic violations.)
 
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#2,463
#2,463
Orange_Crush said:
Hurt me to the tune of $5000 in lawyer fees when they arrested my daughter on suspicion of distribution due to no other evidence than her pocketbook being in proximity to paraphernalia in someone else's house when she'd been out of state for 12 hours and returned to get her stuff.

She answered their questions honestly. They arrested her to try to get leverage on the guy they thought was actually guilty. My daughter spent the night in jail and ended up in "Just busted". Did I mention the $5000 retainer and bail money I had to eat?

They only dropped the charges the day of the arraignment because we were able to show that the detective had lied on the police report. The detective asked the DA to drop all charges.

In this 'war on drugs', collateral damage of the innocent means nothing.

NOTHING.

Until LEO begins respecting the citizenry it's protecting, this divide and lack of trust will continue to exist, and it's not the average citizen's fault.
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I'm confused, she was out of town. Her pocket book was in another person's house, there was paraphernalia found somewhere in said other persons house, she came back in to town, answered questions, and got arrested on suspicion of distribution? Were there drugs found? What was the paraphernalia? What state has a suspicion of distribution charge? What was she suspected of distributing?
 
#2,464
#2,464
SamRebel35 said:
This is where tim comes in and says that your daughter was done a service. This serves as a wake up call for her to find new friends that don't do naughty things. You should write the cop a thank you letter. Etc.
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This is an example of how SamRebel shows his simpleness.
 
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#2,465
#2,465
SamRebel35 said:
This is where tim comes in and says that your daughter was done a service. This serves as a wake up call for her to find new friends that don't do naughty things. You should write the cop a thank you letter. Etc.
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I'd like tim to answer my post, actually. I can give more detail, every bit of it true, and every bit of it more incriminating than the last. I could post the arresting detective's last name or email it to him so he can search public records and verify whatever details are available there.

They had my daughter up on four felony distribution charges with decades in federal prison in the balance. They were full force intent on conviction, knowing full well she was innocent. Detective F....... literally told me: "This was a federal sting operation and someone is going to prison. It can be your daughter, or if you can get the guy we want to confess, it can be him. But someone is going to prison."

Again... If we had not spent $5000 on the best attorney available, she would be in prison right now. And if we had not done our own investigating and been able to show the report falsified, it would have probably cost more than that initial retainer because the attorney would have had to fight an extended trial that wasn't thrown out on the first day.

Something I also found out "right to an attorney/state provided defense" is laughable. They'll provide an attorney if you're poor enough. But if the police threaten your daughter's freedom for leverage, and you make good money, it'll cost you that good money. They know full well they are gambling on your dime.
 
#2,466
#2,466
tim said:
I'm confused, she was out of town. Her pocket book was in another person's house, there was paraphernalia found somewhere in said other persons house, she came back in to town, answered questions, and got arrested on suspicion of distribution? Were there drugs found? What was the paraphernalia? What state has a suspicion of distribution charge? What was she suspected of distributing?
Click to expand...

You know Orange's last name is Escobar.
 
#2,467
#2,467
Orange_Crush said:
That's untrue and is emblematic of the lack of connection LEO has with the citizenry. If I'm speeding and get pulled over, I expect a ticket and hold no hard feelings for getting pulled over/ticketed. If I am speeding and you use it as an opportunity to invade my personal life, it is offensive.

You truly are clueless.
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If you think people hold no hard feelings for getting cited on a traffic violation you are the one that is clueless. This is where most people form their opinion on LE. To argue otherwise is just silly. Getting a ticket on the interstate during morning traffic going into a down town area is'nt going to lead an officer to ask you invasive questions. Getting pulled over at 2 AM in most situations probably will.
 
#2,468
#2,468
Orange_Crush said:
I'd like tim to answer my post, actually. I can give more detail, every bit of it true, and every bit of it more incriminating than the last. I could post the arresting detective's last name or email it to him so he can search public records and verify whatever details are available there.

They had my daughter up on four felony distribution charges with decades in federal prison in the balance. They were full force intent on conviction, knowing full well she was innocent. Detective F....... literally told me: "This was a federal sting operation and someone is going to prison. It can be your daughter, or if you can get the guy we want to confess, it can be him. But someone is going to prison."

Again... If we had not spent $5000 on the best attorney available, she would be in prison right now. And if we had not done our own investigating and been able to show the report falsified, it would have probably cost more than that initial retainer because the attorney would have had to fight an extended trial that wasn't thrown out on the first day.

Something I also found out "right to an attorney/state provided defense" is laughable. They'll provide an attorney if you're poor enough. But if the police threaten your daughter's freedom for leverage, and you make good money, it'll cost you that good money. They know full well they are gambling on your dime.
Click to expand...

I posted some follow up questions above.
 
#2,469
#2,469
CNCVol88 said:
Show me on the doll where every officer in America touched you. You have some deep psychological issues with cops if you think they are corrupt. They're men and women just like you and me out there doing a job that's hard and unfortunately has an aspect to it that no one likes (getting pulled over for traffic violations.)
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You have some deep psychological issues if you think they aren't. You go out of your way to try and be accepted by them.
 
#2,472
#2,472
tim said:
I'm confused, she was out of town. Her pocket book was in another person's house, there was paraphernalia found somewhere in said other persons house, she came back in to town, answered questions, and got arrested on suspicion of distribution? Were there drugs found? What was the paraphernalia? What state has a suspicion of distribution charge? What was she suspected of distributing?
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I'm not sure what is so confusing about any of that, tim. She picked a group of friends up early at one friend's house. She didn't want to take all of her stuff with her when they went on their outing, so she took what she needed out of her purse and her friend threw her purse on a bed in the bedroom. They left.

Around midnight, they came back and the place was being staked out because the guy was suspected of distributing some designer drug (forget what it was). They pulled them out of the car when they pulled up and searched them. No drugs or paraphernalia were found.

They went inside and searched the place, found my daughter's purse in the same room as equipment for separating the drugs for distribution.

They arrested her for possession of the drugs, and the equipment added intent to distribute. She got the charges because of the proximity of her purse.

(The next day, when I asked the detective how proximity equates to "possession", he kind of laughed and said, "Well, what is 'possession', legally speaking? Legally, it's a loose term.")

I had several conversations with the arresting detective. His story changed several times, once he discovered that she was not the underweight drug addict he suspected to start with.

Under advice of my brother, who is LEO, we had her drug tested as soon as we bailed her out of jail. She tested clean, of course.

When the attorney was retained and we looked at the police report, I noticed that it said that they were at the residence when the sting went down, let LEO in to do the search, as opposed to not at the residence, pulling up from out of state, searched, clean, etc... and then escorted into the residence from outside.

I knew from the detective's conversation with me that this was untrue, so did our own amateur investigation to show this. When the detective saw that he was about to be exposed as having forged the report, he walked over and asked the DA to drop all charges.

If not for that, he was still gunning for her.

What is confusing about that, tim?
 
#2,473
#2,473
tim said:
If you think people hold no hard feelings for getting cited on a traffic violation you are the one that is clueless. This is where most people form their opinion on LE. To argue otherwise is just silly. Getting a ticket on the interstate during morning traffic going into a down town area is'nt going to lead an officer to ask you invasive questions. Getting pulled over at 2 AM in most situations probably will.
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Not true. I was pulled over in North Carolina a few years back for driving with a headlight that was out. It was 8 in the morning with the sun out and I still had my lights on. I was lucky enough to have hit a pot hole which jarred the connection on a lamp. Anyway, I get pulled over, don't give any attitude and was fully cooperative. He then asked me to get out of the car and sit in his car for his safety. I told him I would not sit in the back of his car, so he offered the front as a compromise, which I took. He asked most of the invasive questions like, where are you from, where are you going, what do you do for work, etc... all because of bulb being out during daylight which is something a driver won't notice anyway.

He only gave me a written warning, tried claiming I looked like someone else (who?) and sent me on my way.
 
#2,474
#2,474
You guys need to remember. Tim was/is not your typical cop. He was a fed. The thought process is different. Count, while a cop, isn't your typical officer either. Grandvol (which I've meet and talk to frequently) I believe to be more of a investigator/detective.

I believe all these guys have formed their opinions much like the rest of us have. One on one experiences. They deal with the trash of the world on a daily basis while our interactions may be limited to once or twice a year.
I've seen some cops try and pull some shady crap before, but I don't lump them all together.

Just my .02
 
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#2,475
#2,475
I'll just say this and be done with it. Tim, I respect what LEO is up against. I also respect the fact that LEO has to deal with the dark underbelly of society and it's easy to become jaded. I really do.

My personal experience showed me what that can cause when dealing with the citizenry they are sworn to serve. I too have become jaded. I have no easy answers. How do you hire a bunch of guys to deal with the lowest of the low, and them not become effected by it? But is it then acceptable consequence for how it effects them?

When the 'war on drugs' has produced a 'the ends justify the means' in our criminal justice system, we have reached a dangerous place as a nation.
 
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