To Protect and to Serve...

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#2,326
#2,326
govols/cc said:
If I get pulled over for a seat belt violation & my license, insurance, & registration is in order why would you ask where I'm going, where I'm coming from, & to search my vehicle?
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Conversation? You realize how Tim Mcveigh was arrested? Extreme example, but generally most police officers are eager to do their job. If I were a chief I would not desire an officer who simply wrote a ticket and wasnt curious enough to take an extra step to see whats up.
 
#2,327
#2,327
hog88 said:
It's not on the citizenry to do better, it's on the LEO. Stop treating everyone like a suspect, stop talking down to people and lose the I'm superior to you attitude. (not referencing you personally)
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You may have your experiences, lord knows I do, but not every LEO is responsible for the way you feel and not every citizen is responsible for how some LEO's feel. Thats why I think good guys should act like good guys and good cops should act like good cops. That makes it easier to discern and weed out the bad ones.
 
#2,328
#2,328
tim said:
Conversation? You realize how Tim Mcveigh was arrested? Extreme example, but generally most police officers are eager to do their job. If I were a chief I would not desire an officer who simply wrote a ticket and wasnt curious enough to take an extra step to see whats up.
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Lol what?
 
#2,329
#2,329
tim said:
Conversation? You realize how Tim Mcveigh was arrested? Extreme example, but generally most police officers are eager to do their job. If I were a chief I would not desire an officer who simply wrote a ticket and wasnt curious enough to take an extra step to see whats up.
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To see what's up with the person not wearing their seatbelt? That has you suspicious enough to want to question them and potentially search their vehicle?

Ridiculous.
 
#2,330
#2,330
MercyPercy said:
To see what's up with the person not wearing their seatbelt? That has you suspicious enough to want to question them and potentially search their vehicle?

Ridiculous.
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Not really. It's only ridiculous that you cannot see why it is desirable for an officer to look beyond the initial infraction. You act as if the officer observes an infraction his interaction should be limited to that infraction alone.
 
#2,332
#2,332
tim said:
You may have your experiences, lord knows I do, but not every LEO is responsible for the way you feel and not every citizen is responsible for how some LEO's feel. Thats why I think good guys should act like good guys and good cops should act like good cops. That makes it easier to discern and weed out the bad ones.
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I'm not necessarily talking about "bad" cops. I was talking more about ones like the last guy that pulled me over. You don't need to know where I was going in a hurry, I admitted I was speeding. You look younger than 25 so don't dare give me a lecture on safe driving and quit wasting my time, I'm in a hurry otherwise I wouldn't be speeding! Write me the ticket and let's get on with our day.
 
#2,333
#2,333
tim said:
Not really. It's only ridiculous that you cannot see why it is desirable for an officer to look beyond the initial infraction. You act as if the officer observes an infraction his interaction should be limited to that infraction alone.
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Yes, but when a citizen refuses to tell the officer where they're going or came from shouldn't be reasonable cause for a search.
 
#2,334
#2,334
tim said:
What did you not understand?
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You answered it above. Yes the only interaction should be for the initial violation unless there's obvious probable cause to escalate. Asking questions beyond that or to perform an illegal search is just fishing for bs.
 
#2,335
#2,335
hog88 said:
I'm not necessarily talking about "bad" cops. I was talking more about ones like the last guy that pulled me over. You don't need to know where I was going in a hurry, I admitted I was speeding. You look younger than 25 so don't dare give me a lecture on safe driving and quit wasting my time, I'm in a hurry otherwise I wouldn't be speeding! Write me the ticket and let's get on with our day.
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Tickets are, by in large, a huge issue with how people view the police. Nobody likes getting a ticket and in your case the officer could've said anything from "have a nice day" to "go f yourself" and you'd feel the same about your interaction with him. It is what it is, you got a ticket, he wrote a ticket. There is no good answer for this, you should've been doing the speed limit, he could've warned you...
 
#2,336
#2,336
hog88 said:
Yes, but when a citizen refuses to tell the officer where they're going or came from shouldn't be reasonable cause for a search.
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I never said it was. But, if there are certain articulable facts it can support or eliminate reasonable suspicion. For example.. Hey, here's your warning, btw I saw you leaving that parking lot (where there's a head shop) do you have any illegal substances in your vehicle?

Answer: Yeah, I just bought a bong and here's the reciept.

or:

Answer: I had a flat tire and pulled over to change the tire, here's my flat one.
 
#2,337
#2,337
tim said:
Tickets are, by in large, a huge issue with how people view the police. Nobody likes getting a ticket and in your case the officer could've said anything from "have a nice day" to "go f yourself" and you'd feel the same about your interaction with him. It is what it is, you got a ticket, he wrote a ticket. There is no good answer for this, you should've been doing the speed limit, he could've warned you...
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I wasn't POed because he pulled me over, I was speeding an not just a couple mph over, so I deserved a ticket. It was his condescending attitude that set me off.

The last ticket I was pissed about getting was texting while driving. I stopped at a stoplight, pulled out the phone to do a quick check of emails then he hit his lights. He was right behind me.
 
#2,338
#2,338
tim said:
I never said it was. But, if there are certain articulable facts it can support or eliminate reasonable suspicion. For example.. Hey, here's your warning, btw I saw you leaving that parking lot (where there's a head shop) do you have any illegal substances in your vehicle?

Answer: Yeah, I just bought a bong and here's the reciept.

or:

Answer: I had a flat tire and pulled over to change the tire, here's my flat one.
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Bongs aren't illegal...
 
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#2,339
#2,339
govols/cc said:
You answered it above. Yes the only interaction should be for the initial violation unless there's obvious probable cause to escalate. Asking questions beyond that or to perform an illegal search is just fishing for bs.
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The supreme court does not require probable cause, only reasonable suspicion supported by certain articulable facts. So it may appear as fishing BS, but this has been highly litigated and until the Supreme court changes its ruling perfectly legal.

Most trained officers have been taught the time frame of a legal traffic stop, after the ticket, and usually operate within that timeframe. Some have not, so I do not speak for them.
 
#2,341
#2,341
tim said:
I never said it was. But, if there are certain articulable facts it can support or eliminate reasonable suspicion. For example.. Hey, here's your warning, btw I saw you leaving that parking lot (where there's a head shop) do you have any illegal substances in your vehicle?

Answer: Yeah, I just bought a bong and here's the reciept.

or:

Answer: I had a flat tire and pulled over to change the tire, here's my flat one.
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Or answer a simple "no".
 
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#2,342
#2,342
hog88 said:
I wasn't POed because he pulled me over, I was speeding an not just a couple mph over, so I deserved a ticket. It was his condescending attitude that set me off.

The last ticket I was pissed about getting was texting while driving. I stopped at a stoplight, pulled out the phone to do a quick check of emails then he hit his lights. He was right behind me.
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Thats tough. Yeah, I know that situation. I've been given several lectures, but I take it as the officer feeling like he has to explain it out loud so he doesnt feel like shat for writing the ticket. It makes me feel better anyway.
 
#2,343
#2,343
tim said:
The supreme court does not require probable cause, only reasonable suspicion supported by certain articulable facts. So it may appear as fishing BS, but this has been highly litigated and until the Supreme court changes its ruling perfectly legal.

Most trained officers have been taught the time frame of a legal traffic stop, after the ticket, and usually operate within that timeframe. Some have not, so I do not speak for them.
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So a seat belt violation or a blown tag light constitute reasonable suspicion? I think not.
 
#2,345
#2,345
tim said:
Not really. It's only ridiculous that you cannot see why it is desirable for an officer to look beyond the initial infraction. You act as if the officer observes an infraction his interaction should be limited to that infraction alone.
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Just go ahead and admit the seatbelt stop is just an excuse to fish for something more incriminating.

Tim is providing all the evidence you need as to why it's not beneficial to talk to police.
 
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#2,346
#2,346
tim said:
I never said it was. But, if there are certain articulable facts it can support or eliminate reasonable suspicion. For example.. Hey, here's your warning, btw I saw you leaving that parking lot (where there's a head shop) do you have any illegal substances in your vehicle?

Answer: Yeah, I just bought a bong and here's the reciept.

or:

Answer: I had a flat tire and pulled over to change the tire, here's my flat one.
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Why does the officer need to know "why" u was there? And futhetmore why should I present evidence to prove my claim.

It's none of their business.
 
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#2,347
#2,347
tim said:
Pretty obvious. Not worth going into it with you if you cant figure it out
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What good is my community doing for me if I talk to the police and potentially have my own words used against me for them to piece together some lovely bit of fiction? There is literally nothing that one can gain from talking to the police, even if one is completely innocent and isn't thought to be any sort of suspect. Take your socialist ideals of the greater good and blow it out your ass. I'm going to look out for my own best interest, and talking to guys with handcuffs and guns does not fall in to that category.
 
#2,349
#2,349
SamRebel35 said:
What good is my community doing for me if I talk to the police and potentially have my own words used against me for them to piece together some lovely bit of fiction? There is literally nothing that one can gain from talking to the police, even if one is completely innocent and isn't thought to be any sort of suspect. Take your socialist ideals of the greater good and blow it out your ass. I'm going to look out for my own best interest, and talking to guys with handcuffs and guns does not fall in to that category.
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The greater good isn't a socialist idea....
 
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