To Protect and to Serve...

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#126
#126
BigOrange15 said:
I understand the concern here with the militarization aspect of this. However, a lot of times, SWAT teams are going into active shooter situations. If the department has the resources, why not use a vehicle that can adequately protect the SWAT officers? They also use a variety of military style weapons and devices, why is this any different besides cost and appearance? Its just another tool to protect the officers and allow them to contain the situation and accomplish the task safely and effectively.
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this is a military vehicle designed to protect the occupants from a threat that does not exist in US cities. This is much different than a vehicle designed to withstand gunfire

there's a reason this is being done but I'm just not 100% sure what it is yet. I'm pretty sure I won't like it though
 
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#127
#127
utvolpj said:
this is a military vehicle designed to protect the occupants from a threat that does not exist in US cities. This is much different than a vehicle designed to withstand gunfire

there's a reason this is being done but I'm just not 100% sure what it is yet. I'm pretty sure I won't like it though
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So is it specifically the MRAP you have a problem with, pj? Would you have a problem with any APC being used as a SWAT transport vehicle?
 
#128
#128
BigOrange15 said:
So is it specifically the MRAP you have a problem with, pj? Would you have a problem with any APC being used as a SWAT transport vehicle?
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it's unnecessary to deploy military hardware on US streets. Almost to the point of being illegal but I'm sure that line is being carefully toed

there is no need to upgrade current vehicles to this type of machine unless someone can offer proof police are facing mined streets
 
#129
#129
utvolpj said:
it's unnecessary to deploy military hardware on US streets. Almost to the point of being illegal but I'm sure that line is being carefully toed

there is no need to upgrade current vehicles to this type of machine unless someone can offer proof police are facing mined streets
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Why does it have to be mined? And maybe that's why you have a problem with the MRAP. That's fine, but other APCs are not mine proof but are more heavily armored to protect occupants from high caliber gunfire which most certainly IS a threat to SWAT officers. Where do you draw the line? If I am a Chief in a large municipality, I want my SWAT guys protected in any way that our budget allows.
 
#130
#130
Punk's post about Sumner County needing a zombie apocalypse/IED vehicle and NATI's "that's clearly a photoshopped picture" made my morning.

Thanks, guys. Don't think too hard today.
 
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#131
#131
BigOrange15 said:
Why does it have to be mined? And maybe that's why you have a problem with the MRAP. That's fine, but other APCs are not mine proof but are more heavily armored to protect occupants from high caliber gunfire which most certainly IS a threat to SWAT officers. Where do you draw the line? If I am a Chief in a large municipality, I want my SWAT guys protected in any way that our budget allows.
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why? Because that's the purpose of a Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle. Protect the responders from the threats they'll face but don't roll military vehicles down city streets just because you need to spend tax dollars.
 
#132
#132
DinkinFlicka said:
Punk's post about Sumner County needing a zombie apocalypse/IED vehicle and NATI's "that's clearly a photoshopped picture" made my morning.

Thanks, guys. Don't think too hard today.
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No problem. Don't take me or this board too serious today or ever really.

:hi:
 
#133
#133
utvolpj said:
why? Because that's the purpose of a Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle. Protect the responders from the threats they'll face but don't roll military vehicles down city streets just because you need to spend tax dollars.
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So you have a problem with the MRAP but not a similar vehicle more suited for protection against high caliber gunfire as opposed to mines/IEDs, am I tracking you?
 
#134
#134
BigOrange15 said:
So you have a problem with the MRAP but not a similar vehicle more suited for protection against high caliber gunfire as opposed to mines/IEDs, am I tracking you?
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not sure how many times you want me to answer that. Yes, I have issues with expensive military vehicles being deployed that serve no practical purpose on US streets
 
#135
#135
utvolpj said:
not sure how many times you want me to answer that. Yes, I have issues with expensive military vehicles being deployed that serve no practical purpose on US streets
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You never really answered. You kept focusing on the MRAP, that was not my question. My question was about other APCs. What would you want the SWAT delivery vehicle to be if you were Chief of, say, Los Angeles where the threat that SWAT officers face from large weapons is very real?
 
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#136
#136
BigOrange15 said:
You never really answered. You kept focusing on the MRAP, that was not my question. My question was about other APCs. What would you want the SWAT delivery vehicle to be if you were Chief of, say, Los Angeles where the threat that SWAT officers face from large weapons is very real?
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answered that one too

utvolpj said:
Protect the responders from the threats they'll face but don't roll military vehicles down city streets just because you need to spend tax dollars.
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#138
#138
And btw, I'm not trying to say that every department needs an MRAP, I'm just saying that if you can provide SWAT officers with safer, more effective equipment and it is within the department's budget, I'm for it.
 
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#139
#139
BigOrange15 said:
You can't have it both ways. The most effective means of protection from the threats they face are those large, expensive military vehicles that you don't want them to have...
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sure I can. Are the current vehicles inadequate? Are rounds routinely penetrating them and causing harm to the occupants?

the silliness that Swat needs military vehicles specifically designed to resist mines is something I can't understand. The fact is that this is nothing more than a shiny new toy for some chief trying to look tough to the citizens. Being able to afford something and it being a wise purchase are much different things

The thousands purchased for DHS are a separate matter (and much scarier)
 
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#140
#140
I think these things get about 3-4 mpg, so just how much use, training or otherwise will they see in Sumner County?

I could see (mabey and reluctantly) a possible need in a terrorist high value target city like NY, LA or Chicago. Not in Gallatin or Hendersonville, TN. Waste of money.
 
#141
#141
FullButchVol said:
Only one I could find was a drunk domestic between father and son that turned into a standoff with the son.

Son charged with assault after Portland standoff - WSMV Channel 4

I don't think a MRAP would be necessary for a standoff with someone who's had a little too much to drink.
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Dude, if you think that the news is going to report all the crime, think again. Read any newspaper crime stories and multiply that X100 and you might get a close account of real crime.
 
#142
#142
hog88 said:
I think these things get about 3-4 mpg, so just how much use, training or otherwise will they see in Sumner County?

I could see (mabey and reluctantly) a possible need in a terrorist high value target city like NY, LA or Chicago. Not in Gallatin or Hendersonville, TN. Waste of money.
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Hendersonville's already burned money on police boats for water the TWRA and auxiliary Coast Guard already patrol, they've burned money for mounted horse patrols (which patrol asphalt packing lots most of the time), it doesn't surprise me they would burn money on this.
 
#144
#144
hog88 said:
I think these things get about 3-4 mpg, so just how much use, training or otherwise will they see in Sumner County?

I could see (mabey and reluctantly) a possible need in a terrorist high value target city like NY, LA or Chicago. Not in Gallatin or Hendersonville, TN. Waste of money.
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The MRAP didn't cost anything to Sumner Co. or any other dept. and they have NG guys in the law enforcement depts that already know how to operate and work on it.
 
#146
#146
punkcat said:
Dude, if you think that the news is going to report all the crime, think again. Read any newspaper crime stories and multiply that X100 and you might get a close account of real crime.
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I think they report most all major crime. Shoot outs and blood sell.

Traffic stops, not so much but how often is an armored vehicle needed for a speeding ticket?
 
#148
#148
punkcat said:
The MRAP didn't cost anything to Sumner Co. or any other dept. and they have NG guys in the law enforcement depts that already know how to operate and work on it.
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There seems to be a lot of free s*** floating around these days for government. How can the average citizen get in on this action?
 
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