To Protect and to Serve II

[n_huffhines]

The armed criminals with the HOSTAGE went into traffic, police cant just stop chasing them and be like well we will look for them later...the thieves arent idiots, they likely wouldve killed the hostage and moved to another vehicle they hijacked...putting yet more in danger...that's just not practical or realistic....

the problem with some of these posts is people get their police and legal training from tv shows and movies lol

Why would they kill the hostage?

I don't think you know anything about policing. Police are taught to abandon chases that are endangering the public. You're acting like that's not even an option

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The armed criminals with the HOSTAGE went into traffic, police cant just stop chasing them and be like well we will look for them later...

Can you read? Where did I say stop chasing them?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

the problem with some of these posts is people get their police and legal training from tv shows and movies lol

That's funny, because I just said earlier that is where some of these cops get their inspiration to get into these high speed chase/shootout situations.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

This is roaring 20’s G men ****. All they needed was a couple Fords with running boards to stand on while they dump their Tommy guns into whatever lays in front. I can’t imagine the helplessness felt by these people in cars as cops draw fire on them. Sorry just going to borrow your car and your life to stop a robber.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Police training 101 should be protect the innocent public. You can't really believe this is OK?

you obviously dont understand police engagement procedures...they use vehicles because they are excellent cover...the criminals are the ones shooting here...should the police run out in the open and be shot?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Why would they kill the hostage?

I don't think you know anything about policing. Police are taught to abandon chases that are endangering the public. You're acting like that's not even an option

well i have 20 plus years in law enforcement so i think i know what im talking about...they only "abandon chases" on traffic charges and things like that.....Two armed people who have already committed attempted murder, robbery, carjacking AND have a hostage, dont get "let's abandon and regroup"....that's insane and not taught anywhere

 

[DancingOutlaw]

you obviously dont understand police engagement procedures...they use vehicles because they are excellent cover...the criminals are the ones shooting here...should the police run out in the open and be shot?

Maybe back the **** off and try something else? I don’t see how endangering dozens of lives to “save” a hostage is good calculus. If these guys were shooting randomly maybe they have a reason to engage. But they were only shooting at cops. So why endanger innocent lives by using them as human shields?

 

[Rickyvol77]

That's funny, because I just said earlier that is where some of these cops get their inspiration to get into these high speed chase/shootout situations.

ok i am positive that there are "some cops" who do stupid things...just like there are idiots in any profession....but it doesn't mean these officers wanted to get in a shoot-out high speed chase...I hate getting in high-speed pursuits and I can promise you i dont like being in a shoot-out either...doesnt make what i said wrong either...

 

[n_huffhines]

well i have 20 plus years in law enforcement so i think i know what im talking about...they only "abandon chases" on traffic charges and things like that.....Two armed people who have already committed attempted murder, robbery, carjacking AND have a hostage, dont get "let's abandon and regroup"....that's insane and not taught anywhere

I am so sad to find out you're a cop and you would use people as a shield. Does it sting when people call you "hero"?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Maybe back the **** off and try something else? I don’t see how endangering dozens of lives to “save” a hostage is good calculus. If these guys were shooting randomly maybe they have a reason to engage. But they were only shooting at cops. So why endanger innocent lives by using them as human shields?

They werent just shooting at cops...any active shooter situation, you go to end the threat...period...you don't leave criminal who are shooting at people alone....

 

[Rickyvol77]

I am so sad to find out you're a cop and you would use people as a shield. Does it sting when people call you "hero"?

Where did i say use people as a shield? again the police arent the ones shooting at these others' vehicles

 

[DancingOutlaw]

They werent just shooting at cops...any active shooter situation, you go to end the threat...period...you don't leave criminal who are shooting at people alone....

How many people did the robbers shoot during all this random highway shooting they were doing? Cause the cops killed four people once they stopped.

 

[Rickyvol77]

1st of all the robbers already shot an innocent woman in the head at the store they robbed.
2nd of all, forensics hasn't shown which bullets killed the other two....i could care less about the robbers being shot...so counting them is pointless.

You subscribe to the pre-Columbine law enforcement technique used in movies? Surround the active shooters with a bullhorn and sit back and drink coffee and wait for a FBI negotiator?

This is real world emergency incident response....if you have an active shooter, you neutralize the threat...till there is no threat anymore....and they did...

 

[n_huffhines]

Where did i say use people as a shield?

You said they are doing what they are trained to do...to put innocent people in the crosshairs to save themselves. Are you saying you wouldn't do what you were trained to do?

again the police arent the ones shooting at these others' vehicles

Nobody is saying they are, so it's time to abandon this point.

Look, I'm not saying that cops can't have a lapse of judgement in this insane moment and jump for cover behind some lady's car. I get that is the reaction just about anybody would have....but it's not the right reaction and shouldn't be defended as correct. Then you add the cop's victims on top of that. There is nothing to defend here and the defense of this is exactly why police have such bad PR.

 

[n_huffhines]

1st of all the robbers already shot an innocent woman in the head at the store they robbed.
2nd of all, forensics hasn't shown which bullets killed the other two....i could care less about the robbers being shot...so counting them is pointless.

You subscribe to the pre-Columbine law enforcement technique used in movies? Surround the active shooters with a bullhorn and sit back and drink coffee and wait for a FBI negotiator?

This is real world emergency incident response....if you have an active shooter, you neutralize the threat...till there is no threat anymore....and they did...

Dude...you're a cop...hopefully trained to handle both types of situations...and that means that you should understand that a robbery escape and a school shooting are two completely different scenarios. The rules of engagement should be completely different.

 

[VolStrom]

Dude...you're a cop...hopefully trained to handle both types of situations...and that means that you should understand that a robbery escape and a school shooting are two completely different scenarios. The rules of engagement should be completely different.

You're just lucky you weren't born in time to be a 2nd lieutenant in Vietnam.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Dude...you're a cop...hopefully trained to handle both types of situations...and that means that you should understand that a robbery escape and a school shooting are two completely different scenarios. The rules of engagement should be completely different.

rules of engagement? lol an armed murderer is an armed murderer...there is no difference there....a gangbanger shooting people in a drive by, a school shooter, a robber who carjacked someone and shot them, a guy i pull over for speeding pulls a gun, they are all going to be treated the same as they should...each one is a threat to me and to others

 

[sofflavol]

You said they are doing what they are trained to do...to put innocent people in the crosshairs to save themselves. Are you saying you wouldn't do what you were trained to do?



Nobody is saying they are, so it's time to abandon this point.

Look, I'm not saying that cops can't have a lapse of judgement in this insane moment and jump for cover behind some lady's car. I get that is the reaction just about anybody would have....but it's not the right reaction and shouldn't be defended as correct. Then you add the cop's victims on top of that. There is nothing to defend here and the defense of this is exactly why police have such bad PR.

I’m not in law enforcement and I think you are completely wrong on the situation, it’s easy to Monday morning qb this but it’s pretty clear what happened. Cops were trailing two armed robbers/murderers who also had a hostage in the vehicle..I’m sure the police are under the assumption with all the info at the time they had already shot someone and these two can and will shoot at anytime at anyone.

When the UPS truck got clogged in traffic the two dudes hung out the doors and just opened fire on the police and anyone in there general area. I would assume at that distinct moment an officer job is to shoot back to end the threat. The UPS driver at that moment is caught in crossfire and is literally stuck. I’m confused as to how so many people have the “right” plan of attack for an active shooter response.

If this was a school shooting situation (the Douglas high school shooting is an example) where the cops sit back while the shooter is walking the halls shooting unarmed children or do you prefer the cops/swat to enter the building as soon as humanly possible to try and end the threat. God forbid someone gets hit in the crossfire I literally have no idea how a law enforcement officer is supposed to protect life while also attempting to return fire on a person intent on killing everyone.

 

[1972 Grad]

You're just lucky you weren't born in time to be a 2nd lieutenant in Vietnam.

Huff would have been fragged before the end of his first week.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You subscribe to the pre-Columbine law enforcement technique used in movies? Surround the active shooters with a bullhorn and sit back and drink coffee and wait for a FBI negotiator?

According to the news story, there were 40 vehicles from 5 different jurisdictions chasing this UPS truck. With all of the technology we have (radio, helicopters, cellphones), is it unreasonable to think that all you needed were 2-3 cars in pursuit while the rest of the cops, in coordination with these other jurisdictions, could have been downstream and following the truck in a more casual and less aggressive manner that doesn't endanger the public with 40 plus vehicles in a full sprint in traffic?

 

[tim]

You can look at it however you want, I'm not here to say anybody is lying or telling the truth, but the mere fact that his own daughter would say this about him, true or false, is enough to know the guy is probably ****ed up. What good person has a daughter that talks about them like that in a public forum? I'll play the odds here. She probably hates all cops because she hates her Dad, not vice versa, LOL.

Im sure a lot of sjw’s like yourself are less than respectful to their parents. Not saying this about you, just that kids notoriously rebel against parents when young and mature later to a healthy relationship with their parents. Difference for my generation was the lack of a social media platform to say crap that we would later be embarrassed about.

 

[tim]

According to the news story, there were 40 vehicles from 5 different jurisdictions chasing this UPS truck. With all of the technology we have (radio, helicopters, cellphones), is it unreasonable to think that all you needed were 2-3 cars in pursuit while the rest of the cops, in coordination with these other jurisdictions, could have been downstream and following the truck in a more casual and less aggressive manner that doesn't endanger the public with 40 plus vehicles in a full sprint in traffic?

Is it unreasonable? No. Were we there? No.

 

[tim]

Why would they kill the hostage?

I don't think you know anything about policing. Police are taught to abandon chases that are endangering the public. You're acting like that's not even an option

Not all agencies. There are varying degrees depending on the level of the crime and the jurisdictions willingness to fight crime

 

[Rickyvol77]

According to the news story, there were 40 vehicles from 5 different jurisdictions chasing this UPS truck. With all of the technology we have (radio, helicopters, cellphones), is it unreasonable to think that all you needed were 2-3 cars in pursuit while the rest of the cops, in coordination with these other jurisdictions, could have been downstream and following the truck in a more casual and less aggressive manner that doesn't endanger the public with 40 plus vehicles in a full sprint in traffic?

Less aggressive? Part of the other vehicles were “downstream” and trying to create a perimeter as best they could in rush hour traffic in a city like Miami. The number of officers was for the fact that two dangerous armed killers were shooting people and needed to be neutralized period

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

’They murdered him:’ Family of UPS driver killed in shootout lashes out at police