To Protect and to Serve II

#10,176
#10,176
Rasputin_Vol said:
Why is it either of the two extremes? Are we have to chose from is either no police or keep the police we have now? Really???

How about police reform?
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Police reform would be good, probably needed. What worries me are cities getting rid of the police altogether and hire “private security forces.” What standards would these forces be held to? What happens if something happens with a security force personnel and an unarmed person?
 
#10,178
#10,178
headhunter15 said:
Police reform would be good, probably needed. What worries me are cities getting rid of the police altogether and hire “private security forces.” What standards would these forces be held to? What happens if something happens with a security force personnel and an unarmed person?
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With private security, if an incident occurs, there would be liability and consequences unlike the current security monopoly.
 
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#10,179
#10,179
VolFaninFla said:

That cop is a major league ass wipe. Being super aggressive and condescending.
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Law abiding citizens “have we broken a law?”

Tyrant cop “that’s what I’m trying to determine now give me your ID” “why are you filming me while I violate your rights?”

While murders, rapes, and assaults are occurring this cop is wasting tax payers money harassing law abiding citizens practicing their protected second amendment right.
 
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#10,180
#10,180
Rasputin_Vol said:
Why is it either of the two extremes? All we have to chose from is either no police or keep the police we have now? Really???

How about police reform?
Click to expand...
I have no interest in going there.... I don’t know anyone that wants to go there.... it has nothing to do with the police.
 
#10,182
#10,182
VolFaninFla said:

That cop is a major league ass wipe. Being super aggressive and condescending.
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WTH? They are literally doing nothing wrong. Just grabbing lunch. And who was the yahoo lecturing them about stirring stuff up?

I was in Walmart the other day and they was a guy open carrying while grocery shopping with his wife and kid. It didn’t look like one single person cared.
 
#10,183
#10,183
rjd970 said:
WTH? They are literally doing nothing wrong. Just grabbing lunch. And who was the yahoo lecturing them about stirring stuff up?

I was in Walmart the other day and they was a guy open carrying while grocery shopping with his wife and kid. It didn’t look like one single person cared.
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I was waiting for one of them to tell the guy Karen to go F himself
 
#10,184
#10,184
Carl Pickens said:
I have no interest in going there.... I don’t know anyone that wants to go there.... it has nothing to do with the police.
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I want to go there.
I want every single complaint investigated by someone outside the police department and presented to a panel of citizens for determining of fact. Just like a grand jury. If the boys in blue couldn’t police themselves (and cover for each other) then the standard of behavior would definitely increase.
 
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#10,185
#10,185
I’ve said that before and was told “nothing would ever get done by the police if we did that “. If the police behavior is so horrible that oversight would shut them down then we obviously need to do it. They need to do better
 
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#10,186
#10,186
Orangeslice13 said:
I want to go there.
I want every single complaint investigated by someone outside the police department and presented to a panel of citizens for determining of fact. Just like a grand jury. If the boys in blue couldn’t police themselves (and cover for each other) then the standard of behavior would definitely increase.
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I was talking about visiting the city
 
#10,189
#10,189
Orangeslice13 said:
I want to go there.
I want every single complaint investigated by someone outside the police department and presented to a panel of citizens for determining of fact. Just like a grand jury. If the boys in blue couldn’t police themselves (and cover for each other) then the standard of behavior would definitely increase.
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I don’t disagree with this but are these panels allowed to affect policy?

Look at George Floyd. Apparently, kneeling on someone’s neck is a sanctioned practice for Minneapolis PD. We could probably go back through this thread and find lots of practices that you or I would say are unreasonable but which officers are trained are ok.

Are we going to punish the individual officer for things that their employer says are ok, or will 9/10 cases end with a determination that the officer was compliant with department policy but their policy is bad?

Haven’t really thought this through, but maybe have yearly elections for neighborhood representatives that are divided up the way you elect school board members or city councilmen, maybe even smaller districts, to increase accountability to voters. Instead of apportioning representation by population, give the areas with the most crime the greatest proportional representation, so it’s not Signal Mountain and Northshore voters who are rarely confronted by police, telling the police how they should treat people in Highland Park. Force policy decisions that affect the community to pass this body and break it up into panels of 3, 5, or 7 to do those reviews. Just a thought.
 
#10,190
#10,190
RockyTop85 said:
I don’t disagree with this but are these panels allowed to affect policy?

Look at George Floyd. Apparently, kneeling on someone’s neck is a sanctioned practice for Minneapolis PD. We could probably go back through this thread and find lots of practices that you or I would say are unreasonable but which officers are trained are ok.

Are we going to punish the individual officer for things that their employer says are ok, or will 9/10 cases end with a determination that the officer was compliant with department policy but their policy is bad?

Haven’t really thought this through, but maybe have yearly elections for neighborhood representatives that are divided up the way you elect school board members or city councilmen, maybe even smaller districts, to increase accountability to voters. Instead of apportioning representation by population, give the areas with the most crime the greatest proportional representation, so it’s not Signal Mountain and Northshore voters who are rarely confronted by police, telling the police how they should treat people in Highland Park. Force policy decisions that affect the community to pass this body and break it up into panels of 3, 5, or 7 to do those reviews. Just a thought.
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We will absolutely punish those things that are unlawful even if the department has said it’s ok. The department doesn’t determine the law. They are to operate with in the law.
 
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#10,192
#10,192
Rickyvol77 said:
That would be even better if regular citizens even understood the law
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They’re good enough to be on juries.......
Maybe they understand it better than those who are supposed to enforce it. Self policing clearly isn’t working. They should be subject to the people they’ve sworn to serve.
 
#10,193
#10,193
Orangeslice13 said:
They’re good enough to be on juries.......
Maybe they understand it better than those who are supposed to enforce it. Self policing clearly isn’t working. They should be subject to the people they’ve sworn to serve.
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The problem is you say “self policing” isn’t working, but the number of illegal deaths caused by police is extremely low. Are you saying the goal is to wipe it out completely because that’s impossible in any profession
 
#10,194
#10,194
Rickyvol77 said:
The problem is you say “self policing” isn’t working, but the number of illegal deaths caused by police is extremely low. Are you saying the goal is to wipe it out completely because that’s impossible in any profession
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Derp.
Everything is fine. There’s nothing going on anywhere that would indicate there might be a problem with the police and justice.

I suspect that number would change dramatically if someone other than the police were responsible for the investigation.
 
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#10,195
#10,195
Rickyvol77 said:
That would be even better if regular citizens even understood the law
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I think regular citizens understand that kneeling on someone’s neck as they scream I can’t breathe isn’t lawful.

This is part of the problem. Just like politicians most cops believe they are above the law and don’t answer to the citizens who put them in their position.
 
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#10,196
#10,196
Rickyvol77 said:
The problem is you say “self policing” isn’t working, but the number of illegal deaths caused by police is extremely low. Are you saying the goal is to wipe it out completely because that’s impossible in any profession
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Do you think it just about illegal deaths by police?

What about the corruption? The harassing? The violation of constitutional rights? The beatings?

There’s more carnage than just the illegal deaths inflicted by police.
 
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#10,197
#10,197
MOOOOONEY said:
I think regular citizens understand that kneeling on someone’s neck as they scream I can’t breathe isn’t lawful.

This is part of the problem. Just like politicians most cops believe they are above the law and don’t answer to the citizens who put them in their position.
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No I support citizen and police cooperation but as evident with many of the protestors and posters on here, we still have some that don’t understand the law at all. We have people that argue police should never shoot at anyone unless they get shot at first
 
#10,198
#10,198
MOOOOONEY said:
Do you think it just about illegal deaths by police?

What about the corruption? The harassing? The violation of constitutional rights? The beatings?

There’s more carnage than just the illegal deaths inflicted by police.
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Again you are talking about 1-2% of every law enforcement officer and they usually get what’s coming to them if they really are doing that stuff
 
#10,199
#10,199
Orangeslice13 said:
We will absolutely punish those things that are unlawful even if the department has said it’s ok. The department doesn’t determine the law. They are to operate with in the law.
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Ok. But what about the conduct that isn’t illegal but is unacceptable? Im also thinking that there are police-specific statutes behavior that make things that are illegal for you and me not illegal for police.

I like your idea. Not arguing against you. Just curious about the lengths you’d go to.
 
#10,200
#10,200
RockyTop85 said:
Ok. But what about the conduct that isn’t illegal but is unacceptable? Im also thinking that there are police-specific statutes behavior that make things that are illegal for you and me not illegal for police.

I like your idea. Not arguing against you. Just curious about the lengths you’d go to.
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It’s my belief that what’s acceptable and even what’s legal would evolve over time. For example if the law is explained to the “jury” (for lack of a better word) and the results or findings are still offensive to “we the people” then those laws and policies will Be subject to change due to public pressure. The difference is under my system the people are heard and any preconceived belief that the police are covering for each other is removed. Also I believe this system would put pressure on the police to behave in a more professional manner. It’s a lot tougher to justify bad behavior to a group of citizens than to other police officers. The days of a guy getting 15 complaints of brutality unchecked would be over.
 
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