To Protect and to Serve II

#7,301
#7,301
37L1 said:
You know what the biggest impediment to getting rid of bad cops is, counselor?

Ironically, it's attorneys.
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I doubt that. You’re clearly capable of finding something else to change the subject if there weren’t any attorneys to bag on.

😂😂
 
#7,302
#7,302
RockyTop85 said:
I doubt that. You’re clearly capable of finding something else to change the subject if there weren’t any attorneys to bag on.

😂😂
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Really?

Who writes the state's laws governing the hiring and firing of employees?

Who writes the jurisdiction's Rules and Regulations/ General Orders that includes Internal Affairs/Discipline?

Who represents the department head and their jurisdiction?

Who represents the police officer(s)?

Attorneys.

Police officers, unless they are probationary, cannot be fired without cause and are entitled to legal representation (an attorney) in any disciplinary action, including internal affairs, and any discipline up to and including termination.
 
#7,303
#7,303
37L1 said:
Really?

Who writes the state's laws governing the hiring and firing of employees?

Who writes the jurisdiction's Rules and Regulations/ General Orders that includes Internal Affairs/Discipline?

Who represents the department head and their jurisdiction?

Who represents the police officer(s)?

Attorneys.

Police officers, unless they are probationary, cannot be fired without cause and are entitled to legal representation (an attorney) in any disciplinary action, including internal affairs, and any discipline up to and including termination.
Click to expand...

Who pays the lawyer to represent the police officer?
 
#7,305
#7,305
37L1 said:
Police Union. So?
What about all the other stuff?

We going to go to the point that the jurisdiction pays the salary from which the union dues are paid?
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You want me to address all the things you mentioned, which were all lobbied for and devised by unions made up of police officers, and explain why I don’t think they’re the fault of attorneys? Seems like you just want to accuse me of hubris again.

I’m happy to abuse the legal profession when it’s deserved, (which just makes your continued need to cry “attorney” every time we interact all the more bizarre) but blaming them for the actions of the client or condemning them for doing the work they’re getting paid to do for a client isn’t on my list of priorities.
 
#7,306
#7,306
RockyTop85 said:
You want me to address all the things you mentioned, which were all lobbied for and devised by unions made up of police officers, and explain why I don’t think they’re the fault of attorneys? Seems like you just want to accuse me of hubris again.

I’m happy to abuse the legal profession when it’s deserved, (which just makes your continued need to cry “attorney” every time we interact all the more bizarre) but blaming them for the actions of the client or condemning them for doing the work they’re getting paid to do for a client isn’t on my list of priorities.
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Don't be so sensitive. I don't use 'hubris" much and you made a change to your original post which I neglected to note until now and thank you for.

Not all those things I mentioned were made up by/for police officers and their unions. Some are part of general personnel rules that apply to all government employees, be they teachers, firefighters, office workers, etc. So you can just bash unions in general.

You are apparently a clever fellow, so what about the current system regarding the retention or dismissal of "bad cops" would you change and how would you go about doing it? What would be the chance of successfully making that/those change(s)? Keep in mind the right to due process and Supreme Court rulings such as Garrity v. New Jersey (1967) and Gardner v. Broderick (1968).

There's nothing we can do about bad attorneys. (sorry, had to.)
 
#7,311
#7,311
37L1 said:
I must have missed that in the thread title.
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The thread title is tongue in cheek. I guess you missed the sarcasm. One way to avoid that mistake would have been to read a few of the posts to get the general theme of the thread.

I'm explaining this to you, even though you know good and damn well what this thread is clearly about.
 
#7,312
#7,312
Rasputin_Vol said:
The thread title is tongue in cheek. I guess you missed the sarcasm. One way to avoid that mistake would have been to read a few of the posts to get the general theme of the thread.

I'm explaining this to you, even though you know good and damn well what this thread is clearly about.
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So report me.
 
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#7,315
#7,315
OK... I forgot about hi-beam headlights. That is yet another trigger for getting pulled over. We have got to get these hi-beam drivers off the road.

 
#7,316
#7,316
4 cops pulling over a guy for "flashing" his hi-beams. I swear, I can sleep much easier at night knowing that brave men and women are out here tracking down these drivers that have tinted windows and that flash their hi-beams.
 
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#7,317
#7,317
Wanted to post this before the hustle of the coming week causes me to forget it...

As most of you know, I-95 traverses our county. Roughly 27 miles of it. We routinely conduct speed enforcement up there, and yes, we have our own page on "SpeedTraps.org". What you probably don't know, and they don't say, is that we generally don't look at anything below 85, and on weekends it's not unusual for us to "raise the bar" to 90 or better. And yet, we stay busy up there.

So...a couple of weeks ago I'm working a weekend day shift to cover for a shortage. I check out a LIDAR; head to my favorite overpass (where I'm easily visible for over half a mile to oncoming traffic); and set up shop. In short order, i've made two stops at 90+, and I'm back on my perch. Except that now, the "pace" of traffic has dropped from the low 80's to the mid 70's, and I can't get anything over 82. Scratch my head; drive off; and go check zones.

I mention it at lunch with the shift, and a younger Deputy (late 20's) starts laughing and says "You got Wazed, Grandpa." Long story short, there's this app called "Waze" where you can update traffic conditions, congestion, and yes...where the cops are.

So I install it on my iPhone. I worked yesterday and today, day shift, again to cover a shortage on one shift. And this time, I open the app when I get to my honey hole. Before I make my first stop (again, at 90+), I have been "pinged" twice. Right where I'm sitting. After my 2nd stop (again), there are multiple little pigs with blue hats where I've been sitting, and a few more at or near where I made the two stops. Amazing...

Today, I flip the script. I sat at 3 successive overpasses, for about 15 minutes each, out in plain view to approaching traffic. Didn't try to make a single stop; just wanted to be seen. And got over 20 hits on Waze, and to look at it, there had to be a pack of rabid troopers working that 10 miles of Interstate. And not a single wreck did I have to respond to.

Waze. Love it. Does my job for me. And nobodies feelings (or wallet) gets hurt.

Go Vols.
 
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#7,318
#7,318
GreyWolf1129 said:
Wanted to post this before the hustle of the coming week causes me to forget it...

As most of you know, I-95 traverses our county. Roughly 27 miles of it. We routinely conduct speed enforcement up there, and yes, we have our own page on "SpeedTraps.org". What you probably don't know, and they don't say, is that we generally don't look at anything below 85, and on weekends it's not unusual for us to "raise the bar" to 90 or better. And yet, we stay busy up there.

So...a couple of weeks ago I'm working a weekend day shift to cover for a shortage. I check out a LIDAR; head to my favorite overpass (where I'm easily visible for over half a mile to oncoming traffic); and set up shop. In short order, i've made two stops at 90+, and I'm back on my perch. Except that now, the "pace" of traffic has dropped from the low 80's to the mid 70's, and I can't get anything over 82. Scratch my head; drive off; and go check zones.

I mention it at lunch with the shift, and a younger Deputy (late 20's) starts laughing and says "You got Wazed, Grandpa." Long story short, there's this app called "Waze" where you can update traffic conditions, congestion, and yes...where the cops are.

So I install it on my iPhone. I worked yesterday and today, day shift, again to cover a shortage on one shift. And this time, I open the app when I get to my honey hole. Before I make my first stop (again, at 90+), I have been "pinged" twice. Right where I'm sitting. After my 2nd stop (again), there are multiple little pigs with blue hats where I've been sitting, and a few more at or near where I made the two stops. Amazing...

Today, I flip the script. I sat at 3 successive overpasses, for about 15 minutes each, out in plain view to approaching traffic. Didn't try to make a single stop; just wanted to be seen. And got over 20 hits on Waze, and to look at it, there had to be a pack of rabid troopers working that 10 miles of Interstate. And not a single wreck did I have to respond to.

Waze. Love it. Does my job for me. And nobodies feelings (or wallet) gets hurt.

Go Vols.
Click to expand...
Eventually, you will need to write some tickets to make up for the loss in revenue this weekend. It all balances out.
 
#7,319
#7,319
37L1 said:
You know what the biggest impediment to getting rid of bad cops is, counselor?

Ironically, it's attorneys.
Click to expand...

Disagree. It's other cops/union, and juries who acquit guilty cops (which is a representation of the general public). You can get the best lawyer in the world, but if you don't have the support of other cops/general public, you're going down. There are very few cases where the majority of the public rightfully calls for the cop's head and doesn't get it.
 
#7,321
#7,321
Rasputin_Vol said:
Eventually, you will need to write some tickets to make up for the loss in revenue this weekend. It all balances out.
Click to expand...

You know where I stand on that. We are not "revenue-based". There are no quotas. The speed limit is clearly posted, and universally known. Excessive speed is a major contributing factor in accidents on the interstate (NHTSA study). I never hide;
I generally set up where I can be seen for a good distance. My normal threshold is 85, but when the herd is running fast, I raise it to 90. Speeds of 100+ between the "packs" is common. My warning / citation ratio hovers right around 50/50. In short, if I get you, then you just had that one coming. I gave you every advantage, and more than ample leeway.

This weekend, I found a stolen gun and a wanted person out of Miami, and our shift found a military member awaiting adsep proceedings (go figure) with cocaine, heroin, meth, and a truckload of stolen property. We also tracked it back to two storage units full of stolen property, and a civilian female who was involved as well. All from traffic stops. Normal weekend.

For all of those bent cops out there, there's at least one good one who takes their oath seriously. Like you said, it all balances out. I do my best to keep those scales level. It's folks like you who help me to remember how important that is.

And that Waze thing tickled the dickens out of me. I felt like an internet superstar watching all those drivers "ping" me.
 
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#7,322
#7,322
n_huffhines said:
Disagree. It's other cops/union, and juries who acquit guilty cops (which is a representation of the general public). You can get the best lawyer in the world, but if you don't have the support of other cops/general public, you're going down. There are very few cases where the majority of the public rightfully calls for the cop's head and doesn't get it.
Click to expand...
The union takes on the same role as an attorney, accordingly both represent the interests of their clients. It is probably the union and/or the jurisdiction who provide attorneys for police officers.

Unions and other cops can't "acquit guilty cops", only juries can and if the guilty get away with it, that is the sole responsibility of the prosecution. Police agencies can still terminate the employment of obviously guilty cops who were acquitted by doing their own IA and/or the "guilty cops" quit on there own knowing in advance what an I/A will find. The victims of the "guilty cop" can hold the officer civilly liable and the jurisdiction can decide whether or not to indemnify the officer. Depending on the nature of the offense, the Feds can also go after the officer for a rights violation.

Fellow cops who falsely testify to protect a bad cop run their own risk of losing their own ability to remain a police officer. Reference Supreme Court ruling
Brady v. Maryland, Giglio v. United States and United States v. Cummings.

This is some good reading if you care, that is. Every police officer and jurisdiction should be aware of this.
Don’t destroy your career: The Brady list and the ruinous impact of a lie

Further, department heads are concerned about the image of the department and their exposure to bad press, liability and ultimately the security of their own position. It is rare nowadays for them to want to retain such a PIA. What's in it for them?

There should be no breaks for police that abuse their authority and they should be held accountable for their actions.
 
#7,323
#7,323
GreyWolf1129 said:
You know where I stand on that. We are not "revenue-based". There are no quotas. The speed limit is clearly posted, and universally known. Excessive speed is a major contributing factor in accidents on the interstate (NHTSA study). I never hide;
I generally set up where I can be seen for a good distance. My normal threshold is 85, but when the herd is running fast, I raise it to 90. Speeds of 100+ between the "packs" is common. My warning / citation ratio hovers right around 50/50. In short, if I get you, then you just had that one coming. I gave you every advantage, and more than ample leeway.

This weekend, I found a stolen gun and a wanted person out of Miami, and our shift found a military member awaiting adsep proceedings (go figure) with cocaine, heroin, meth, and a truckload of stolen property. We also tracked it back to two storage units full of stolen property, and a civilian female who was involved as well. All from traffic stops. Normal weekend.

For all of those bent cops out there, there's at least one good one who takes their oath seriously. Like you said, it all balances out. I do my best to keep those scales level. It's folks like you who help me to remember how important that is.

And that Waze thing tickled the dickens out of me. I felt like an internet superstar watching all those drivers "ping" me.
Click to expand...

I have used Waze since it was relatively new simply because it is much better than google and the others about not sending me on wild goose chases, going around in circles. When there is a wreck on the interstate, people report it and you can tell all the folks who use Waze because they immediately get rerouted through neighborhoods, sidestreets, whatever is available to hop off the interstate, go around the traffic, and get back on. It has saved me many hours time not being stuck on I85 or I77 in the Carolinas, as well as delays on 40 when I am headed home to the hills. I generally drive 8 to 10mph over the speed limit, and havent had a speeding ticket in 20 years. There are so many folks driving 90mph these days, makes it easy for a rational person to not have trouble. I appreciate good cops like you, and I know a lot of others here do, too. The anticop gang is just always the loudest, despite being a small fraction of society.
 
#7,325
#7,325
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Lynchburg officers who shot man inside his home sentenced to community service
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Jesus... I don't even know where to begin here...

This is what cracks me up with the cop worshiping community... They live with incredibly naive belief that cause they respect the law and do what they're told (basically become obedient dunces when dealing with LE), that things like this can never happen to them. Ya know... The idiots constantly screaming "just don't break the law assholes." Well I got bad news for ya sweethearts....

Walker Sigler and his family have spent their lives respecting law enforcement and supporting Lynchburg, the city they love. On February 17th 2018, Mr. Sigler was shot through the closed front door of his own home. He had been asleep on his couch while his wife, eight months pregnant, and sons, 6 and 3 years of age, slept just above the foyer where this happened. Both of the family cars were in the driveway and the TV was on.
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They also live with the idea that, if it ever did happen, the "good cops" would handle it and justice would certainly be served to the "bad" ones who wronged them. Once again... Wrong.

Statement from Lynchburg PD

This has been a difficult and challenging time for everyone involved, particularly for the Sigler family and the involved officers (LOL)," the statement said. "We recognize the seriousness of this situation and appreciate [the Commonwealth's Attorney's] thorough review of the event (LOL again).

LPD said this incident highlights the fact that police officers around the country are asked to make split-second, life-changing decisions every day, "often based on limited and incomplete information available at the time."
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Translation: We don't even have common dignity to admit they f'd up and you should really feel bad because of how challenging it's been for them.

Also... In case you didn't catch it in the article, they've been on paid administrative leave since the incident. The one that happening 13 MONTHS AGO! So they're getting a slap on the wrist and year long paid vaction for breaking into an innocent man's house and trying to kill him.

But if you question any of this you're just a cop hater who doesn't realize how hard their job is and don't care if they go home to their families at night.
 
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