TN only 7th in SEC in Talent

#101
#101
Neyland Law Vol said:
Before everyone freaks out. My main points are:

2. I do think our fans are demanding a little too much from our coaches when the say "no excuses not to get at lest 10 wins with this team" or "TN's roster is far better than anyone but Bama". That is simply an unfair way to judge our coaches. This article shows that by at least some measure a 9 or 10 win regular season is still a success.
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The *ratings of our team captains mean very little at this point, and these guys likely have a mindset of 11 wins (certainly not 9).
 
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#103
#103
ReaderVol said:
Not quite. Your reading comprehension is not very good. But not as bad as your grasp on history.
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I keep wondering how someone who has been a fan less than two years can make us and we statements as if he has intimate knowledge of the program from following for years. I'm over this bonehead. He burned his bridges in the PF. He just needs to quietly leave.
 
#104
#104
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Actually it will.

Butch won't be pulling in anymore back to back top 5 classes. Its either win big in 2016 or never again.

We can't waste this opportunity.
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It's a good thing the UT administration doesn't think like you or Butch would have been fired after the close losses to Oklahoma, UF and Arkansas last season.

All will not be lost even if the Vols go 8-4 again this season. I'd much rather go 8-4 than 5-7.
 
#106
#106
fade route said:
Not sure I would call it's major bust, but several players have not played up to their star ranking - Malone, Gaulden, etc.
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For every Malone who doesn't live up to a 5 star billing, there's a Derek Barnett or Cam Sutton who exceeds their 3 of 4 star rating.

In the end it evens out.
 
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#107
#107
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
For every Malone who doesn't live up to a 5 star billing, there's a Derek Barnett or Cam Sutton who exceeds their 3 of 4 star rating.

In the end it evens out.
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...and it's not over for Malone, Bates, McDowell, Charles Mosley and co. It's absurd for anyone to call an entire class a "major bust" when those players still have two years of eligibility remaining. There is such a rush to be negative on here.
 
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#108
#108
gunner said:
It's a good thing the UT administration doesn't think like you or Butch would have been fired after the close losses to Oklahoma, UF and Arkansas last season.

All will not be lost even if the Vols go 8-4 again this season. I'd much rather go 8-4 than 5-7.
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What do you mean by "all"?

If you mean the entire program then sure Tennessee football won't end if we fail to win 10-11 games next year.

However, any idea we would be returning to the glory of the 90s and competiting for national titles every year would surely end. Recruiting would fall off, a lot of our best talent will go to the NFL, and we would go back to being an inexperienced team with subpar talent compared to our rivals.

Tennessee would return to being a punching bag and joke.

2016 is as good as it will EVER get. If Butch can't deliver this year, HE NEVER WILL.
 
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#109
#109
BowlBrother85 said:
...and it's not over for Malone, Bates, McDowell, Charles Mosley and co. It's absurd for anyone to call an entire class a "major bust" when those players still have two years of eligibility remaining. There is such a rush to be negative on here.
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Doesn't matter. All the guys you named could not improve and the 2014 class will still be phenomenal and go down as one of the best in program history.

That guy just doesn't know what he's talking about. Pure ignorance.
 
#111
#111
TUSKtimes said:
You're making it too complicated. Top ten consensus recruiting rankings will simply do for comparison.

19 out of the last 20 NC winners have had at least 2-top 10 national rankings in recruiting in their 4 years before they won.

In the past 10 years every NC, except the barn in 2010, have won with no less than 3-top 10 national rankings in recruiting in their 4 years before they won.

Translation: If you want to win a NC, better sign a lot of top 10 recruiting classes.
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Before I saw this post, my thinking was consistent top 10 rankings in recruiting will put you in championship contention as long as you have good player development. SEC is tough but UT under Jones has been doing both things well. The big key to continue is at a minimum to win the east and win two of three against Alabama, Florida, and Georgia. Do this and a good decade run follows if coaches don't get lazy and good hires follow promotions of assistant coaches when they leave UT.
 
#112
#112
gunner said:
It's a good thing the UT administration doesn't think like you or Butch would have been fired after the close losses to Oklahoma, UF and Arkansas last season.

All will not be lost even if the Vols go 8-4 again this season. I'd much rather go 8-4 than 5-7.
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For Tennessee, the bar should be higher than "better than 5-7."
 
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#113
#113
This article could have at least taken the time to compile the recruiting rankings of the players actually on the roster. Comparing the star rankings of 130-140 kids to determine the quality of a 85 man roster is beyond lazy.
 
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#114
#114
JacketVol said:
Before I saw this post, my thinking was consistent top 10 rankings in recruiting will put you in championship contention as long as you have good player development. SEC is tough but UT under Jones has been doing both things well. The big key to continue is at a minimum to win the east and win two of three against Alabama, Florida, and Georgia. Do this and a good decade run follows if coaches don't get lazy and good hires follow promotions of assistant coaches when they leave UT.
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The thing is, that one of the criteria for a NC has been met. Tenn has 2-top 10 recruiting classes in this cycle. The last 19 of 20 NC winners have had at least that type of success. I also mentioned in comparison that the "98" Tenn team had 3-top 10 recruiting cycles and the 4th year was ranked 12th by rivals.

As far as you guys winning 2 out of 3 against your key rivals for a decade, I'll leave that to your active imagination that usually goes undefeated anyway.
 
#115
#115
TUSKtimes said:
The thing is, that one of the criteria for a NC has been met. Tenn has 2-top 10 recruiting classes in this cycle. The last 19 of 20 NC winners have had at least that type of success. I also mentioned in comparison that the "98" Tenn team had 3-top 10 recruiting cycles and the 4th year was ranked 12th by rivals.

As far as you guys winning 2 out of 3 against your key rivals for a decade, I'll leave that to your active imagination that usually goes undefeated anyway.
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I'll give this to you Bammers...you guys have an enviable ability to block out your down times. It wasn't all that long ago we enjoyed a 7 game win streak against Bama and 9 vs UGA. Fla has always been the one team we can't seem to put together consecutive games against. Hopefully that changes.

Anyway I don't think it's a pipe dream that UT can go on a little run over the next decade - IF Butch is the coach we think he is.
 
#116
#116
Neyland Law Vol said:
Everyone that says our roster is loaded, well, according to this article TN has only the 7th most talented roster in 2016. Importantly, that ranks TN's roster 3rd in the East below UF and UGA. Thus, according to this article, TN is still dealing with a talent disadvantage in 2016 if you look just at talent and not past production.



Ranking each program in the SEC from a pure talent perspective
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Calling BS since I can name (4) 5 stars in Hurd, Kamara, kmac and Malone Without looking. I belive Phillips and Barnett should've been.

Always consider the source.

;-)

TennesseeDuke
 
#118
#118
WildTurkey said:
I'll give this to you Bammers...you guys have an enviable ability to block out your down times. It wasn't all that long ago we enjoyed a 7 game win streak against Bama and 9 vs UGA. Fla has always been the one team we can't seem to put together consecutive games against. Hopefully that changes.

Anyway I don't think it's a pipe dream that UT can go on a little run over the next decade - IF Butch is the coach we think he is.
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That 7 game win streak didn't happen in a vacuum. The dynamics were in place for Tenn success. It's that success that I'm sure has driven Bama's success for the past 9 years. It's no longer a rivalry that is even remotely cordial or respectful by fans and players and sometimes head coaches. Some blame it on the times a changing , social media, whatever, but it's gone from mutual respect to a bitter experience for somebody each time out.

If you get 2 out of 3, for a decade, against these bitter rivals loaded and armed you will have earned it.
 
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#119
#119
The first flaw in the article is the assumption that they always get the "stars" right to start with. The reputation of the HS program, media exposure, parents' marketing and plain old bandwagon hype play a part in the ratings.

Secondly, it doesn't account for the fact that 17-18 year old males are not fully developed physically, mentally or emotionally. Even if they got the "stars" right, They have no idea if the player is going to grow another inch or two in height, how they are going to get stronger naturally and how they will respond to the strength and conditioning of a top college program.

And then there is the emotional and mental maturity aspects. Ninety-nine percent of the time, these 4-5 star players are, BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS, the biggest, fastest and strongest players on the field. The HS coaches game plan is pretty simple: give him the ball every time and let him be him. How do you know how well the player will adapt to more complex schemes in the college game? Not to mention that throwing, catching, running, tackling and GETTING HIT is a lot different when you play with the big boys.

And of course, there's the coaching, etc. But, that argument has more holes.

I am not saying that recruiting rankings are total B.S., but it's hardly a science. We've all seen way too many five stars wash out and three stars get drafted into the NFL to not know that. It's certainly not scientific enough to say one team is "more talented" because their average stars is .21 better based on the conceived ability of players before they ever even showed up on campus. That's ludicrous.

It's all just conjecture with enough pseudo-analytics and "experts" to drive the multi-million dollar cottage industry that recruiting has become.
 
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#120
#120
TUSKtimes said:
The thing is, that one of the criteria for a NC has been met. Tenn has 2-top 10 recruiting classes in this cycle. The last 19 of 20 NC winners have had at least that type of success. I also mentioned in comparison that the "98" Tenn team had 3-top 10 recruiting cycles and the 4th year was ranked 12th by rivals.

As far as you guys winning 2 out of 3 against your key rivals for a decade, I'll leave that to your active imagination that usually goes undefeated anyway.[/QUOT


Much like your losing streak to us in the 90's. It's about to change. You guys will go down in Knoxville this year.
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#121
#121
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
If you think #14 rated recruiting classes are gonna win SEC and national titles you're gonna be dissapointed for a long time coming.

You need consistent top 5 classes to compete with the Alabama's of the world. And another year of choking away leads won't get that done.

Its either win big or go home for Butch Jones in 2016.
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Your last sentence, no, not true.

Vols fans recall very quickly the 1997 and 1998 seasons. '97 was lined up to be the year we had both our first Heisman winner, an SEC title and national title team. We fell a little short, won the SEC, but struck out on the other two. And then we lost a boatload of talent to the NFL...Peyton Manning, Terry Fair, Leonard Little, Trey Teague, Marcus Nash, et al.

Yet the team/program found a way to improve, to win it all without some all-time great Vols the following year when it was expected they would take a step back.

We're still gonna have a ton of talent next year. And what if some of those guys wind up being even better than some of the guys we're lamenting heading off to the NFL.

Also, it's about team rather than individual talent IMHO.....and if that talent is close or equal and plays together better?? IMHO, that's what happened in 1997 and 1998. No reason why something like that couldn't happen again in 2016 and 2017 should 2016 not be a championship season.
 
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#122
#122
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
What do you mean by "all"?

If you mean the entire program then sure Tennessee football won't end if we fail to win 10-11 games next year.

However, any idea we would be returning to the glory of the 90s and competiting for national titles every year would surely end. Recruiting would fall off, a lot of our best talent will go to the NFL, and we would go back to being an inexperienced team with subpar talent compared to our rivals.

Tennessee would return to being a punching bag and joke.

2016 is as good as it will EVER get. If Butch can't deliver this year, HE NEVER WILL.
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What do you base this opinion on? The facts are the program has progressed every year under Butch. A 9-3 season this year will still be progress.
 
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#124
#124
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
What do you mean by "all"?

If you mean the entire program then sure Tennessee football won't end if we fail to win 10-11 games next year.

However, any idea we would be returning to the glory of the 90s and competiting for national titles every year would surely end. Recruiting would fall off, a lot of our best talent will go to the NFL, and we would go back to being an inexperienced team with subpar talent compared to our rivals.

Tennessee would return to being a punching bag and joke.

2016 is as good as it will EVER get. If Butch can't deliver this year, HE NEVER WILL.
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Well since we are speaking in ultimatums, I'm
Going to say even if we don't go 10 wins that we WILL return to the glory years of the 90s.
 
#125
#125
This just shows what coaching means. You can have a stacked roster but if coaching isn't as good as the star rating then it doesn't show on the field. Also stars are not a measure of heart after a year or two in the program.
 
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