TN only 7th in SEC in Talent

[Neyland Law Vol]

Everyone that says our roster is loaded, well, according to this article TN has only the 7th most talented roster in 2016. Importantly, that ranks TN's roster 3rd in the East below UF and UGA. Thus, according to this article, TN is still dealing with a talent disadvantage in 2016 if you look just at talent and not past production.

7. Tennessee

5-stars: 1
4-stars: 53
3-stars: 71
Average star rating: 3.44

Credit Butch Jones for pulling the Volunteers back from the brink, as they’re everyone’s pick in the East.

According to the numbers above, 124 three- and four-star signees in a five-year period is quite a haul for most schools. However, the lack of five-star recruits is telling. Elite players aren’t going to Knoxville.

Arkansas has signed just as many five-star kids in the same time. Even Mississippi State has corralled more.

Ranking each program in the SEC from a pure talent perspective

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

Here are the teams ranked ahead of TN in the SEC according to talent on the roster in 2016. We play four of the teams ranked ahead of us in 2016:

1. Alabama

5-stars: 23
4-stars: 71
3-stars: 32
Average star rating: 3.93

To the surprise of nobody, the defending national champion Tide are atop the rankings by a healthy margin.

‘Bama has signed 23 five-star prospects the last half a decade. The other 13 SEC teams have combined to ink 46. While not all pan out, the sheer volume of elite talent on hand is staggering.

Nick Saban’s projected class for 2017 is ranked No. 2. Tuscaloosa may as well be an NFL minor-league stop.

2. LSU

5-stars: 8
4-stars: 72
3-stars: 41
Average star rating: 3.73

The Tigers are understandably second in the standings, albeit much closer to No. 3 below than No. 1 above.

If Les Miles can be counted on for one thing on the recruiting trail, it’s his ability to hold on to the top players inside the talent-rich borders of Louisiana. Few venture outside of the Pelican State.

All the more frustrating, however, is his inability to find a quarterback and a 21st-century passing game.

3. Auburn

5-stars: 7
4-stars: 62
3-stars: 52
Average star rating: 3.63

Maybe the biggest underachiever in the league, there are plenty of four- and five-star kids on The Plains.

Many of Gus Malzahn’s more high-profile signees the past few years have played defense, but the return on investment hasn’t been there. He’s already on his third D-coordinator since 2014.

His best QB, Nick Marshall, was a Georgia washout and JUCO transfer. His next QB may be John Franklin III, a Florida State washout and JUCO transfer.

4. Georgia

5-stars: 12
4-stars: 53
3-stars: 59
Average star rating: 3.62

Much like LSU, the Dawgs do a fine job making sure the top prospects in the Peach State end up in Athens.

An absolute factory for running backs, seemingly every ball carrier in red and black has a decent shot to succeed on Sunday. If coach Kirby Smart hits with five-star quarterback Jacob Eason, the future is bright.

Apr 16, 2016; Athens, GA, USA; Georgia Bulldogs quarterback Jacob Eason (10) throws a pass during the second half of the spring game at Sanford Stadium. The Black team defeated the Red team 34-14. Mandatory Credit: Brett Davis-USA TODAY Sports
Credit: Brett Davis-USA TODAY Sports

While UGA usually has more talent on the field than wins in the standings, Year 1 for Smart is promising.

5. Texas A&M

5-stars: 8
4-stars: 52
3-stars: 61
Average star rating: 3.56

The Aggies seem to have a bit of a top-heavy roster at this point, loaded with stars but lacking in depth.

A nasty receiving corps is led by five-star recruit Christian Kirk. A scary D-line is anchored by five-star tackle Daylon Mack and five-star end Myles Garrett. Mack and Garrett are both from football-crazed Texas.

The rest of the conference wants to infiltrate the Lone Star State. Kevin Sumlin can hold his own, though.

6. Florida

5-stars: 7
4-stars: 46
3-stars: 68
Average star rating: 3.50

Year 1 was a success for Jim McElwain, but he has a long way to go if he’s going to recruit like Urban Meyer.

Considering the fact that Florida has more SEC-caliber players than either of its neighbors, Georgia and Alabama, the Gators should be signing more four and five-star kids. That’s McElwain’s primary directive.

Florida State is dominating the Sunshine State. Miami might be back before long under Mark Richt, too.

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

We play four teams ranked ahead of us in this article in a four game stretch all back to back to back. Anyone demanding that this team secure at least a 10-2 record or they'll be calling out Jones as a bad coach is not up on the facts.

 

[OrangeIsLife]

Moderators, please move this thread to the Chicken Little forum.

 

[GBO97]

IMO it's weighted down by the 2013 class. Maybe our ratings were lower, but we are more talented than a few of the teams ahead of us.

 

[Titans4Vols]

Using recruiting website rankings as the sole indicator of how talented a team is ranks as stupid at best.

The only team on our schedule with an argument to be more talented than us is Bama. We're as talented, if not more talented than anyone else on our schedule. This list fails to bring in to focus that our QB was a 3 star, our star CB was a 3 star, our two best defensive players were only 4 stars, Hurd was only a 4 star, etc, etc.

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

Moderators, please move this thread to the Chicken Little forum.

This isn't "chicken Little", its based on objective facts - i.e. the recruiting rankings.

Now maybe Jones coaches this team up to overachieve v. the other more talented rosters on the schedule (based on star ratings not based on past production).

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Moderators, please move this thread to the Chicken Little forum.

True.

Someone get this garbage outta here.

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

Using recruiting website rankings as the sole indicator of how talented a team is ranks as stupid at best.

The only team on our schedule with an argument to be more talented than us is Bama. We're as talented, if not more talented than anyone else on our schedule. This list fails to bring in to focus that our QB was a 3 star, our star CB was a 3 star, our two best defensive players were only 4 stars, Hurd was only a 4 star, etc, etc.

No one is using it as the "sole indicator." The OP states that it is based only on talent rankings not on past production. Of course, once you see past production of these players in college you can see who is better and worse. A lot of our 3 star's have over achieved. But we should give credit to the coaches for that overachievement.

Of course coaches develop players, and maybe our coaches are better at developing talent and that will make the difference this fall in these games where the other teams are ranked higher on this list.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

This isn't "chicken Little" its facts.

Now maybe Jones coaches this team up to overachieve v. the other more talented rosters on the schedule (based on star ratings not based on past production).

No it's not. If it was "facts", the author would not include the 2013 class.

I don't know if you are aware but a lot of guys from the 2013 class have already gone to the NFL. Most them being 5 stars. Doing a quick rundown, Alabama lost Henry and Robinson. Ole Miss the big 3. Florida Hargreaves, Taylor, Bullard, and Neal. And so on.

Most of the players who will be on the field next year are from the 2014 and 2015 recruiting classes.

And based on that, Tennessee has recruited more 4 and 5 star prospects than EVERYONE in the SEC except Alabama.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Moderators, please move this thread to the Chicken Little forum.

I lol'd

That system is based on stars and not talent.

 

[Titans4Vols]

No one is using it as the "sole indicator." The OP states that it is based only on talent rankings not on past production. Of course, once you see past production of these players in college you can see who is better and worse. A lot of our 3 star's have over achieved. But we should give credit to the coaches for that overachievement.

Of course coaches develop players, and maybe our coaches are better at developing talent and that will make the difference this fall in these games where the other teams are ranked higher on this list.

I guess it depends on how you view "most talented team". I take that as another definition of who has the best team. 7th in SEC in talent going off of these recruiting rankings also assumes that the recruiting websites were right in their assessments of players, and they're often not, at least not entirely on point.

I mean Cam Sutton as a 3 star came in and was great right away as a freshman. That's not what you expect from a 3 star, I don't care if you assemble an all-star coaching staff(not that Jancek and Martinez don't deserve credit for developing Sutton, they do, however if you go off of what a 3 star is supposed to be, they're not supposed to be that good from game 1 as a freshman even if Bear Bryant, General Neyland and Nick Saban are all personally coaching the guy).

I think what the coaching staff deserves credit for more than even developing these players is finding these players. Recruiting for your schemes is far, FAR more important than just recruiting based off stars. See: TCU

This is why I can't get in to and never will get in to recruiting. People complain "why did we go after X harder than Y!?!" or "you mean he's only a 3 star!?!" without failing to realize the coaches know who and what they want at each position.

I think Butch and his staff especially have earned any benefit of the doubt based on how well they've recruited. And I don't just mean recruiting guys with a bunch of stars, I mean recruiting guys who fit their schemes, but there's still fans in the recruiting forum arguing that they're doing something wrong.

 

[smokey0625]

No one is using it as the "sole indicator." The OP states that it is based only on talent rankings not on past production. Of course, once you see past production of these players in college you can see who is better and worse. A lot of our 3 star's have over achieved. But we should give credit to the coaches for that overachievement.

Of course coaches develop players, and maybe our coaches are better at developing talent and that will make the difference this fall in these games where the other teams are ranked higher on this list.

Don't know if a player plays to his abilities is over achieved. I hate that statement because is it possible to achieve something you're not capable of? No, so our players are doing what they can physically do. I'm ok with underachieving but not underachieving.
Now, I get this ranks unproven talent but it is only an indicator of how good Jones has done. He develops players really well and until we start to win or go Ole Miss and pay out he is recruiting really well. We need to do well this year because I know outside of Bama we have better players than all schools on the sched.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

OP who is the better player?

Decorated Senior CB Cam Sutton, or the highest rated 5* CB on that list?

Using the logic of that article, the 5* is better. Using actual logic on the other hand...

 

[ReaderVol]

I do find it funny that some of the same people crying about our not getting 5* commits yet are the same ones calling this article BS.

LOL

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

No one is using it as the "sole indicator." The OP states that it is based only on talent rankings not on past production. Of course, once you see past production of these players in college you can see who is better and worse. A lot of our 3 star's have over achieved. But we should give credit to the coaches for that overachievement.

Of course coaches develop players, and maybe our coaches are better at developing talent and that will make the difference this fall in these games where the other teams are ranked higher on this list.

No. The article is simply misleading.

I could write the same article and make us #2 in talent in the SEC.

It goes like this. Take out the 2013 class rankings since many of those high rated guys left for the NFL. Take out the 2016 class as well since freshmen as a whole rarely make an impact.

The majority of TALENT most teams in the SEC will field are from the 2014 and 2015 recruiting classes.

Based on those classes, Tennessee is the 2nd most talented team in the SEC behind Alabama and 3rd most in the country after Alabama and Florida State if you rank teams by the most 4 and 5 star players recruited.

https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2014

https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2015

 

[smokey0625]

I do find it funny that some of the same people crying about our not getting 5* commits yet are the same ones calling this article BS.

LOL

Ive said all along to get top guys not tied to the program we need to win this year.

 

[mdrew27]

We play four teams ranked ahead of us based on talent in a four game stretch. Anyone demanding that this team secure at least a 10-2 record or they'll be calling out Jones as a bad coach is not up on the facts.

Shouldn't have we had better talent then? I'm tired of losing.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

According to rivals, in 2014 and 2015, Tennessee recruited 6 5* prospects and 29 4* prospects.

That's the most 4* than anyone in the country. And the 6 5* prospects only trail Alabama and Florida State for most 5* prospects during that same time span.

4 and 5 star recruited from 2014-15:

Alabama = 38
Tennessee = 35

Top 2 teams in the SEC.

See how easy it is to change numbers.

 

[utknate]

247sports rankings

From the 2015 class alone we had 6 guys that were top 54. Only 1 was a 5 star but all the rest were either a 5 star at one ppint of that year or ended up borderline 5 star.

Kahlil MacKenzie
Kyle Phillips
Alvin Kamara
Drew Richmond
Preston Williams
Shy Tuttle

Plus we've had a slew of other guys a few spots out of 5 star. To say elite talent is not coming to knoxville is absurd.

Josh Malone
Jalen Hurd
TK JR
Nigel Warrior
Jonathan Kongbo
Jarret Gaurantano

And as D4H just pointed out some of those guys were actually 5 star on other sites.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I do find it funny that some of the same people crying about our not getting 5* commits yet are the same ones calling this article BS.

LOL

Both can be true.

The article is dumb because it includes player who have already left for the NFL when it includes 2013 kids. Most of those guys that were very highly rated are already gone. Just look Ole Miss. All those great 5* players Treadwell, Nkemdiche, and Tunsil are in the NFL now yet according to these rankings, they are still part of Ole Miss talent.

You need to recruit top talent to win. No one denies it. Using 4 year composite averages just isn't the best way.

It doesn't capture teams like Tennessee that really put all their eggs in two baskets. The 2014 and 15 classes.

Its sorta why 2016 is so important for us.

It might be the only time in the near future where we are more talented than just about everyone in the SEC.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

247sports rankings

From the 2015 class alone we had 6 guys that were top 54. Only 1 was a 5 star but all the rest were either a 5 star at one ppint of that year or ended up borderline 5 star.

Kahlil MacKenzie
Kyle Phillips
Alvin Kamara
Drew Richmond
Preston Williams
Shy Tuttle

Plus we've had a slew of other guys a few spots out of 5 star. To say elite talent is not coming to knoxville is absurd.

Josh Malone
Jalen Hurd
TK JR
Nigel Warrior
Jonathan Kongbo
Jarret Gaurantano

And as D4H just pointed out some of those guys were actually 5 star on other sites.

You can spin numbers and rankings anyway you want.

However for the 2016 season, we are the 2nd most talented team in the SEC. Like I said earlier, we basically threw all our eggs in 2 baskets. The 2014 and 2015 signing classes.

In those 2 years we finished closely behind Alabama in terms of total 4* and 5* players recruited.

Its what makes 2016 so important. And why we need to win big.

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

The majority of TALENT most teams in the SEC will field are from the 2014 and 2015 recruiting classes.

I agree with you on this, and think it is a good point. I don't know where we rank based on just those two classes, but it is a good point that those two classes will be most important this season.

 

[smokey0625]

You can spin numbers and rankings anyway you want.

However for the 2016 season, we are the 2nd most talented team in the SEC. Like I said earlier, we basically threw all our eggs in 2 baskets. The 2014 and 2015 signing classes.

In those 2 years we finished closely behind Alabama in terms of total 4* and 5* players recruited.

Its what makes 2016 so important. And why we need to win big.

You said the same thing in back to back post.

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

OP who is the better player?

Decorated Senior CB Cam Sutton, or the highest rated 5* CB on that list?

Using the logic of that article, the 5* is better. Using actual logic on the other hand...

This article in the OP isn't about who has the better player. It's about who has the most talent, based on the recruiting rankings. Once the players get to campus, of course some develop some don't. That is a whole different conversation.

But if you were a coach that couldn't see the names on the roster, would you rather have a roster with 23 5 stars like Bama, a roster with 12 5 stars like UGA, or a roster like TN's with 1 five star.