'This is not wide receiver tape'

#51
#51
adam.vol said:
Pete Carrol is the coach who threw the ball away short and goal when he had Beast Mode in his backfield, during the Super Bowl. I’m not sure I respect his judgment.
Click to expand...
He’s a Super Bowl winning coach who also won in college. I think he has the respect by most.
 
#53
#53
joshwa said:
Feels like our receivers have more dropped passes the past few years than any other sec program
Click to expand...

The PFF statistics are UGLY. Bad. Combine that with Nico overthrowing a half dozen " wide open, nobody near him" TDs leading up to halftime at the Bama game....and thats how you finish a season with only 19 passing TDs in 13 games. If Nimrod just managed to catch the 2 WIDE open TDs against Arkansas...both of which he got BOTH hands on...we finish the regular season 10-2 and have a home playoff game in the 1st round versus one of those lesser conference champion teams that combined went 0-4 in the playoffs. Totally different season IMO. The receivers were bad last season except Thornton, who was average. The only bright spot in our passing game was at TE. Thats not my opinion, its statistical fact.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gainesvol82 and Ttucke11
#54
#54
#1fulmerite said:
Had we had those type receivers the past two years, I’m still not sure we would have fared any better than we did because of our QB’s.
Click to expand...
In 2023 the WRs were bad. I have rewatched every game that season multiple times. While Milton had his over throws and misses, he would have had almost 10 more TDs had the WRs been good. If we would have had OSU or LSU level WR play the past two years we win more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheVolsFrog
#55
#55
KnoxRealtorVOL said:
I just feel like Hyatt alone nullifies this entire argument.

If you can get space and catch the ball, and you have a QB who can get it to you, you’re going to the league.

How is that any different from any other team?
Click to expand...
Hyatt has done next to nothing in the NFL. So if the argument is “these guys don’t translate to the NFL,” then Hyatt doesn’t help Tennessee’s case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigOrangeTrain
#56
#56
so who are the players that CJH has coached that went on to the NFL only to fail because they couldn't play NFL ball? If we are going to make that argument that players from this offense can't adapt to the NFL, show us the examples.

This feels more like sports people parroting each other. One well known person says something and everyone else jumps on the bandwagon because it's now a safe opinion to express. If you find out you were wrong, you could always point out that all the experts were fooled.

As far as recruits go, I think the NIL era has negated a lot of the issues with players not wanting to play for a system that doesn't translate as well to the NFL. Defensively it isn't relevant. The whole argument is really built around QB's and receivers and tight ends. When a kid can come to college, make $4-6M over his college career, getting into the NFL may not the #1 driving priority. Getting paid NOW is probably a big influence on young kids who probably didn't come from much. The statistical probability of getting into the NFL and having a career more than 4-5 years is extremely slim.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: gainesvol82
#57
#57
In the last 30 years they’ve said the same thing about No Huddle, Run and Shoot, Spread, Zone blocking, Zone Read, QBs that run. Stuff either works or it doesn’t… and when it does, everybody copies it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gainesvol82 and marcusluvsvols
#59
#59
BigOrangeTrain said:
In 2023 the WRs were bad. I have rewatched every game that season multiple times. While Milton had his over throws and misses, he would have had almost 10 more TDs had the WRs been good. If we would have had OSU or LSU level WR play the past two years we win more.
Click to expand...
So how well did Malik Nabers do in college, he was a top notch WR(holds most their WR records) and yet they didn’t win more than 10 games any year he was at LSU. Little UT with crappy WR’s it seems has won 11 twice. There is only so many elite WR’s out there. Yes OSU won this past year with an elite WR, but they also had an elite OL, 2 elite RB’s. They could have had our WR’s and prob still won it all. Bama has a stud WR and yet lost to us and our crappy WR’s. It’s a team game and I’d rather have plug and play guys that can catch the ball and a QB that can put the ball on them. Hooker doesn’t get hurt he wins the Heisman, but yet he’s not done anything in the NFL. Does that hurt UT with recruiting? Not really because 2 years later we go to the playoffs with a QB that hamstrung us because he couldn’t process reads OR hit the long ball. Yet still made it to the playoffs. Do I wish we had a Smith of course, do I wish we had a Williams, or course. But Williams just led Bama to one of their worst seasons in 16 years. I’m sure almost every team in college football wished they had 1 of them. But you don’t have to have elite WR’s to win college games, especially since there are very few of them even out there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gainesvol82
#61
#61
marcusluvsvols said:
The PFF statistics are UGLY. Bad. Combine that with Nico overthrowing a half dozen " wide open, nobody near him" TDs leading up to halftime at the Bama game....and thats how you finish a season with only 19 passing TDs in 13 games. If Nimrod just managed to catch the 2 WIDE open TDs against Arkansas...both of which he got BOTH hands on...we finish the regular season 10-2 and have a home playoff game in the 1st round versus one of those lesser conference champion teams that combined went 0-4 in the playoffs. Totally different season IMO. The receivers were bad last season except Thornton, who was average. The only bright spot in our passing game was at TE. Thats not my opinion, it’s statistical fact.
Click to expand...
Thorton struggled with dropped passes most of his career at UT, plus the fact he got hurt didn’t help his pro prospects. Hes kind of a one trick pony and that is catching long passes and that isn’t because TN sucks with route tree’s, the bigger issue is he has hands of stone, so shorter passes to him where you use your hands aren’t his speciality, his speciality is going long and running under the ball where he can use his body more to make the catch OR he can cradle the ball in. It’s easy enough to watch plays where he was to get a short pass and the ball hits his hands and ends up on the ground.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpookyAction, gainesvol82 and marcusluvsvols
#62
#62
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Coach Heupel's job is to win college games not NFL games and, by the admission of the folks in the article, it works in college. Obviously, we've had good success with his scheme.

If he feels pressure, it's because articles like this may be negative recruiting tools used against him for getting elite WRs. That's the issue I see. It's hard to get great WRs who are looking at an NFL future if other coaches are saying "going to UT will hurt your NFL evaluation" and pointing to articles like this.
Click to expand...

Once Heupel gets a new version of HendoCinco then this becomes a non-story. How much criticism of the route tree were we hearing prior to Bazooka Joe and Prico I'maleaveya?

Very little. There has always been some talk about Air Raid schemes not translating to the NFL but tons of guys have made it. Production from good receivers with a good QB will make all this chatter fade into the background.

Besides, being an elite CFB player is now a 4 year path to life changing money....not every good player will decide to pursue the NFL bu college production is a guaranteed way to make good money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bigorangefaninga
#63
#63
xpsyclonex2002 said:
so who are the players that CJH has coached that went on to the NFL only to fail because they couldn't play NFL ball? If we are going to make that argument that players from this offense can't adapt to the NFL, show us the examples.

This feels more like sports people parroting each other. One well known person says something and everyone else jumps on the bandwagon because it's now a safe opinion to express. If you find out you were wrong, you could always point out that all the experts were fooled.
Click to expand...
It would be easier to list the WR that have gone from Heupel offense to have success in the NFL. It's pretty bad. If you look at the WR on college teams he was OC or HC, Kenny Stills is the most successful WR in the NFL. Next closest is Sterling Shepard. Both of those from his time at Oklahoma as OC. After that you're pinning your hopes that Gabe Davis is able to pass one of them. If Kenny Stills and Sterling Shepard is all the ammo there is, there's not much to defend. 10 years of OC/HC before he came to Tennessee.

Of course none of this really matters unless great WR think his offense will hinder them and choose not to come here for that reason.

1748532191219.png
 
Last edited:
#64
#64
gainesvol82 said:
Once Heupel gets a new version of HendoCinco then this becomes a non-story. How much criticism of the route tree were we hearing prior to Bazooka Joe and Prico I'maleaveya?

Very little. There has always been some talk about Air Raid schemes not translating to the NFL but tons of guys have made it. Production from good receivers with a good QB will make all this chatter fade into the background.

Besides, being an elite CFB player is now a 4 year path to life changing money....not every good player will decide to pursue the NFL bu college production is a guaranteed way to make good money.
Click to expand...
Even Nico at $8M for 4 years isn't "life changing" compared to that second NFL contract. The rookie minimum in the NFL is near $1M. The second contract IS life changing if you're an NFL starter.

I'm unsure why people are reluctant to accept what is being said by guys with zero reason to trash UT: the routes we run don't showcase what NFL teams want to see from WRs.

It's not as though these NFL scouts and analysts are grinding on UT out of spite. It's reality. They have much better things to do than trash us. They want to see what they want to see from college tape and they don't see it from our scheme.

My concern is recruiting. Someone negative recruiting us by pointing out who THEY put in the NFL successfully and what's said about THEIR college film vs who we put in the NFL and what's said about our film.

The real worry is having someone get to someone like Brandon with "You know you're going to go there and throw these routes that show the NFL nothing about what you can do at the next level, right? The word is that the WR routes are junk for evaluation for NFL potential so it's not showing what you can do with NFL routes either....."
 
#66
#66
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Even Nico at $8M for 4 years isn't "life changing" compared to that second NFL contract. The rookie minimum in the NFL is near $1M. The second contract IS life changing if you're an NFL starter.

I'm unsure why people are reluctant to accept what is being said by guys with zero reason to trash UT: the routes we run don't showcase what NFL teams want to see from WRs.

It's not as though these NFL scouts and analysts are grinding on UT out of spite. It's reality. They have much better things to do than trash us. They want to see what they want to see from college tape and they don't see it from our scheme.

My concern is recruiting. Someone negative recruiting us by pointing out who THEY put in the NFL successfully and what's said about THEIR college film vs who we put in the NFL and what's said about our film.

The real worry is having someone get to someone like Brandon with "You know you're going to go there and throw these routes that show the NFL nothing about what you can do at the next level, right? The word is that the WR routes are junk for evaluation for NFL potential so it's not showing what you can do with NFL routes either....."
Click to expand...

Two words for Faizon: Patrick Mahomes. QB's can come from any system.

I don't disagree that our WR's don't put a full route tree on tape but, as Hyatt showed, production trumps all in getting drafted. Tillman didn't have that problem either.

Good QB play + WRs schemed open = procuction which leads to getting drafted. And a million is life-changing money for most adults in America, much less 17-22 year olds....much less 8 million, lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols
#68
#68
gainesvol82 said:
Two words for Faizon: Patrick Mahomes. QB's can come from any system.

I don't disagree that our WR's don't put a full route tree on tape but, as Hyatt showed, production trumps all in getting drafted. Tillman didn't have that problem either.

Good QB play + WRs schemed open = procuction which leads to getting drafted. And a million is life-changing money for most adults in America, much less 17-22 year olds....much less 8 million, lol.
Click to expand...
Hyatt and Tillman have struggled at the next level like Hooker and Milton. Heupel runs a very successful college scheme but it doesn't show the NFL what it wants to see nor, until proven otherwise, does it prepare skilled positions for the next level.

Citing the outlier of Mahomes, who is an exception even to normal NFL QBs, is pretty weak. There is nothing about Patrick Mahomes that is "typical NFL QB" so yeah, where he came from doesn't matter because he does a lot of unconventional things as an NFL QB.

True: Heupel can get kids in the league at skilled positions.
Not proven: Those guys can have a career at the next level that's substantial.

GA has had several good seasons with marginal QBs who just don't have it for the NFL. That's not an indictment of GA's coaching or offense, it's just a fact. Kirby wins. Josh Heupel can win too without preparing guys for the NFL.

Can both continue to recruit QBs and WRs at a high level if recruits notice: UGA and UT QBs and WRs tend to disappear at the next level. Those Ohio State WRs tend to go on to have a real career in the NFL. Alabama tended under Saban put out some good NFL QBs.

Success at the next level draws recruits.
 
#70
#70
LittleVol said:
The problem with using Hyatt is that he has 450 yards receiving over 2 seasons with ZERO TDS for the NY Giants.
And then you say “well NY sucks at QB”
THEN you see rookie Malik Nabers on the NY Giants same as Hyatt and he has 1200 yards and 7 TD in one season….


As I’ve said numerous times, this offense needs “more” breadth to its repertoire.
Click to expand...

I get your point, but Hyatt and Nabers are way different types of WRs.

Nabers is your traditional X WR. Prototypical number 1 and is one of the 5 highest graded WR prospects to come out in the last 15-20 years.

Hyatt is/was a Z WR. A prototypical number #2/slot type of WR. Much of the problem with his usage is that NY QBs have had terrible downfield accuracy the last 2 years. And the Giants depth chart has been pretty stacked at WR as well. He should get a lot more usage this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols
#71
#71
Vol865 said:
Hyatt got drafted to a bad team with a bad QB and a bad coach. The situation you're put in matters.
Click to expand...
Malik Nabers was drafted to the same situation and did over 3x as much in one year as Hyatt has done in two years. Hyatt could hypothetically do better in a better situation, but that hypothetical doesn’t help Tennessee’s image with anyone.
 
#72
#72
Carp said:
I get your point, but Hyatt and Nabers are way different types of WRs.

Nabers is your traditional X WR. Prototypical number 1 and is one of the 5 highest graded WR prospects to come out in the last 15-20 years.

Hyatt is/was a Z WR. A prototypical number #2/slot type of WR. Much of the problem with his usage is that NY QBs have had terrible downfield accuracy the last 2 years. And the Giants depth chart has been pretty stacked at WR as well. He should get a lot more usage this year.
Click to expand...
The Giants haven’t been stacked at receiver. Wandale Robinson and Darius Slayton aren’t standing in the way of a really good receiver getting opportunities. They had the worst receiving group in the league in 2023 and probably the worst #2 and #3 receivers in 2024.
 
#73
#73
adam.vol said:
Pete Carrol is the coach who threw the ball away short and goal when he had Beast Mode in his backfield, during the Super Bowl. I’m not sure I respect his judgment.
Click to expand...
Also the coach who destroyed OU with a Heisman winner and Adrian Peterson in the backfield by a score of 55-19 in a national championship game, then a decade later held Peyton and the Broncos to 8 Super Bowl garbage garbage time points when they had the highest scoring offense in history.

He made a boneheaded mistake in a Super Bowl, but the guy won championships at the pro and collegiate levels. Whose judgment do you respect?
 
#74
#74
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Hyatt and Tillman have struggled at the next level like Hooker and Milton. Heupel runs a very successful college scheme but it doesn't show the NFL what it wants to see nor, until proven otherwise, does it prepare skilled positions for the next level.

Citing the outlier of Mahomes, who is an exception even to normal NFL QBs, is pretty weak. There is nothing about Patrick Mahomes that is "typical NFL QB" so yeah, where he came from doesn't matter because he does a lot of unconventional things as an NFL QB.

True: Heupel can get kids in the league at skilled positions.
Not proven: Those guys can have a career at the next level that's substantial.

GA has had several good seasons with marginal QBs who just don't have it for the NFL. That's not an indictment of GA's coaching or offense, it's just a fact. Kirby wins. Josh Heupel can win too without preparing guys for the NFL.

Can both continue to recruit QBs and WRs at a high level if recruits notice: UGA and UT QBs and WRs tend to disappear at the next level. Those Ohio State WRs tend to go on to have a real career in the NFL. Alabama tended under Saban put out some good NFL QBs.

Success at the next level draws recruits.
Click to expand...
Really?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top