'This is not wide receiver tape'

#26
#26
B81 said:
Perhaps you guys should read the article. It doesn’t say anything about preparing players for the nfl, it says it makes “evaluations” hard. In other words, the subject doesn’t like it because it makes his job hard.
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What he's saying is guys might get less of a look because his job is hard and that does matter to players.

College isn't the destination, just a step, for elite athletes. If a school isn't showcasing what you can do at the pro level, even if you're winning at the college level, you might want to look elsewhere as a recruit or transfer.

That's the issue. If they're going to have to dig for your skills to show up, you may very well get passed over for someone else who HAS pro style film.

It's a valid concern for elite athletes. If a college isn't going to prepare you for the next level, look elsewhere.
 
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#27
#27
Vol8188 said:
Hyatt isn’t having less success than Nabers due to the offense he played in. He’s having less success because he’s not the same level of player
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Actually that is a huge part of it.

That’s what that whole article is about.
You’re saying he isn’t the level athlete or player that Nabers is. That’s your opinion.

So how does lack of receiver development help if that’s true??
 
#29
#29
BruisedOrange said:
Well, recruits care, for one!

What you would be admitting is, that this is an offense fit for mid-major schools, if it cannot attract the best talent.

As effective as our offense is (can be), at which positions does it still require top talent to win in the SEC? Well, every defensive position, for sure! And offensive linemen for sure... which might then include TEs...

How about receivers? How much disparity in speed and size between receiver and defender can the scheme overcome? Not much, I would say, from what we've seen. Because even though the pass is thrown to whomever is going to be most open given the coverage, the defenders also know that, so they understand toward which "open-ish" receiver or area they must be ready to break. That shrinks the window.

Hopefully, we've only seen this offense executed inadequately at Tennessee, and it's actually capable of recreating what it did at UCF.
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My biggest question is, why have we not attracted more premier running back recruits? This seems like a great showcase offense for them, requiring the full NFL skillset for the position, while limiting their carries with a view toward extending their career.
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Then, it would not be plug and play, now would it?

As long as it is, if you are a Tennessee fan, do you really care about the talent level of WR’s if you are winning at a high level?
 
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#30
#30
You guys are sounding like you would trade an 11-2 record or playoff team to have a top 5 draft pick at WR each year.

Which would you rather have?
 
#31
#31
LittleVol said:
Actually that is a huge part of it.

That’s what that whole article is about.
You’re saying he isn’t the level athlete or player that Nabers is. That’s your opinion.

So how does lack of receiver development help if that’s true??
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That’s a reality, not an opinion. No one watched Hyatt and Nabers and thought Hyatt was on the same level or even close.

Hyatt developed massively under CJH. The idea that Nabers is better due to development is a joke.
 
#33
#33
#1fulmerite said:
Then, it would not be plug and play, now would it?

As long as it is, if you are a Tennessee fan, do you really care about the talent level of WR’s if you are winning at a high level?
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If you don't think having WRs like that Smith kid from Ohio State would make for a better team, I don't know what to tell you.

VERY Elite talent at any position creates issues for defenses, even elite defenses, and may give you that edge to beat the top teams...... that is, win at an even higher level. Why do we worry about our recruiting ranking at all in your mind?

Sure, we're winning but we're not JUST winning because of Heupel's system. You need great athletes not just a great scheme to do great things.
 
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#34
#34
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
If you don't think having WRs like that Smith kid from Ohio State would make for a better team, I don't know what to tell you.

VERY Elite talent at any position creates issues for defenses, even elite defenses, and may give you that edge to beat the top teams...... that is, win at an even higher level. Why do we worry about our recruiting ranking at all in your mind?

Sure, we're winning but we're not JUST winning because of Heupel's system. You need great athletes not just a great scheme to do great things.
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I agree.

As long as we have last year’s type schedule, including teams during their down year(s), the system will work and work well.
 
#35
#35
BigOrangeTrain said:
There really isn’t a debate. If it were not true then more of the offensive players Heupel has put in the NFL would be producing.
So far none of them have done anything. Heupels system is for college success only. And there is nothing wrong with that.
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There’s plenty wrong with that. Not going to get many 5* skill players to come here when they want to go early in the NFL draft vs going to LSU bama etc. That’s an issue for us and explains why Keys went from leaning our way to committing to LSU in a weekend.
 
#36
#36
#1fulmerite said:
I agree.

As long as we have last year’s type schedule, including teams during their down year(s), the system will work and work well.
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It does work well. There's sustainability though.

Articles like this, and I don't believe it's the first mention about our WRs transitioning to the NFL, could easily mean recruiting elite WRs will be hard.

If someone gets in Brandon's ear that "Heupel runs routes that won't show what the WRs can do at the NFL level, but that means they also won't show what you can do at the NFL level" then we might see a flip nobody wants to see.

One of the reasons Alabama was so hard to beat was Nick Saban could coach. Another reason was they recruited on a ridiculous level and they did that because Alabama put guys in the league from lots of positions. GA is doing that now. Ohio State is doing that now.

To reach the pinnacle, UT needs to put guys in a position to excel in the NFL. Articles like this indicate our WR routes do not do that.

If you're fine with being a bridesmaid, you're good and that's fine. I don't think everyone is okay with that.
 
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#37
#37
#1fulmerite said:
Again, if we can just plug and play, who cares?
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We all should. To win at the highest level, you need the highest caliber athletes.
#1fulmerite said:
You guys are sounding like you would trade an 11-2 record or playoff team to have a top 5 draft pick at WR each year.

Which would you rather have?
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Why are you pretending the two are mutually exclusive?
 
#38
#38
BigOrangeTrain said:
There really isn’t a debate. If it were not true then more of the offensive players Heupel has put in the NFL would be producing.
So far none of them have done anything. Heupels system is for college success only. And there is nothing wrong with that.
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except it could really hurt recruiting
 
#39
#39
KnoxRealtorVOL said:
I just feel like Hyatt alone nullifies this entire argument.

If you can get space and catch the ball, and you have a QB who can get it to you, you’re going to the league.

How is that any different from any other team?
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Would really help nullify the argument if the Giants would actually play him & utilize him. Also Cedric Tillman was coming on strong w/ Jameis Winston at the helm last year on Cleveland, if he continues to grow on that success & if Thornton plays well it will silence this type of talk.
 
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#40
#40
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#41
#41
Dirtyhairies said:
Well this article is quoting two analysts and a NFL head coach so i think the criticisms are something to contend with even if you think they arent legitimate. This feels like one of those times where the narrative is more important than the substance.

I wonder if Heupel feels any pressure or sees any advantage to adjusting the offense to change the narrative.
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Why would he change the offense? Some of y’all need to step away from the internet, oh man a former NFL head coach?! Herm Edwards, Greg Schiano, and Lou Holtz are former NFL head coaches, just to name a few, who wouldn’t know a good offense if they saw one. There are probably thousands of current and former NFL scouts.
 
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#42
#42
This is something I have worried about with our WR's and our QB's from the beginning. I hope we are changing some to get our players ready for the next step without giving up the explosiveness. At some point the more this stuff comes out the more it will affect our recruiting at these positions.
 
#43
#43
FlyFishnVol said:
I'm guessing scoring, yards per catch, run, and everything that drives SEC Defenses crazy are not NFL. Well, maybe the NFL teams are antiquated and need a new perspective because, at the end of the day, it's the W that matters, in my opinion.
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As they said, "Good for UT. Good for Coach Heupel." It works in college.

It won't work in the NFL because the secondary talent will feast on Heupel style offenses. They clearly explained if you wait to throw in the NFL, you'll get picked. Lots of NFL throws are extremely tight timed throws where the ball is out before the receiver makes their last move so it's harder to pick off. An NFL QB is throwing on the belief that the WR move will spring him enough to make the catch. Heupel is looking to scheme holes that should be there for the receiver to run toward. Big difference.

Heupel also exploits defenses using the extreme spread because it makes teams more vulnerable inside. The NFL has extreme talent inside and at the linebacker position which makes this less effective.

It's ridiculous to say the NFL is behind Heupel in scheming or in what matters for WRs at the NFL level.
 
#44
#44
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
As they said, "Good for UT. Good for Coach Heupel." It works in college.

It won't work in the NFL because the secondary talent will feast on Heupel style offenses. They clearly explained if you wait to throw in the NFL, you'll get picked. Lots of NFL throws are extremely tight timed throws where the ball is out before the receiver makes their last move so it's harder to pick off. An NFL QB is throwing on the belief that the WR move will spring him enough to make the catch. Heupel is looking to scheme holes that should be there for the receiver to run toward. Big difference.

Heupel also exploits defenses using the extreme spread because it makes teams more vulnerable inside. The NFL has extreme talent inside and at the linebacker position which makes this less effective.

It's ridiculous to say the NFL is behind Heupel in scheming or in what matters for WRs at the NFL level.
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Don't agree, but I understand your point. So, if the offensive side has superior players the opposite could be true as well in the NFL.
 
#45
#45
FlyFishnVol said:
Don't agree, but I understand your point. So, if the offensive side has superior players the opposite could be true as well in the NFL.
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Of course, all the NFL players are extremely talented.

The point of the article is that the scheme Heupel runs doesn't show the NFL what it needs to see from WRs to help predict NFL success.

It's not an indictment of Heupel's success at the college level at all. It highlights the difference between his offense and the NFL offenses but they are very complimentary of his success in college.

If you're a recruit or transfer and you're reading that one college is very successful AND puts lots of successful guys in the NFL vs another college that's very successful but there are complaints about how their WRs translate success to the NFL......... where do you think your best option lies?
 
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#46
#46
BigOrangeTrain said:
There really isn’t a debate. If it were not true then more of the offensive players Heupel has put in the NFL would be producing.
So far none of them have done anything. Heupels system is for college success only. And there is nothing wrong with that.
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Darnell Wright had a really, really good season.
 
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#48
#48
#1fulmerite said:
I agree.

As long as we have last year’s type schedule, including teams during their down year(s), the system will work and work well.
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But we aren’t guaranteed schedules like last year. And do you seriously not want to be up there with teams like TX, UGA and OSU? WR play is very important. You talk about winning at a high level and we have been. But how would really good WRs elevate that winning rate?

Take 2023 with Milton. Say we had a few high level, round one or two type WRs on the team. You telling me we couldn’t have won more games? Especially with how bad the WRs were?
 
#49
#49
Vol8188 said:
Hyatt isn’t having less success than Nabers due to the offense he played in. He’s having less success because he’s not the same level of player
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This. Great posts in this thread. Can tell you used to coach some ball. I never coached football sadly but played through HS.

Fwiw...the Panthers traded up to draft Tet McMillian #9 overall this draft. The WR from Colorado that they drafted in the 4th round showed up at rookie camp and absolutely blew him away. The veterans were giddy talking about the other kid...who "only" ran a 4.46 at the combine without pads. Granted, McMillan is a big body posession WR not a guy that returns kicks and punts etc like the shifty kid from Colorado, but still. WRs are always a crap shoot. Guys that absolutely dominate in college usually dont pan out in the NFL. Thats the norm, not the exception as I am sure you know. Theres a dozen Hyatts for every NFL starting WR that actually produces year after year. Still hope he catches up and balls out though, as with all the VFLs.
 
#50
#50
BigOrangeTrain said:
But we aren’t guaranteed schedules like last year. And do you seriously not want to be up there with teams like TX, UGA and OSU? WR play is very important. You talk about winning at a high level and we have been. But how would really good WRs elevate that winning rate?

Take 2023 with Milton. Say we had a few high level, round one or two type WRs on the team. You telling me we couldn’t have won more games? Especially with how bad the WRs were?
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Had we had those type receivers the past two years, I’m still not sure we would have fared any better than we did because of our QB’s.
 
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