The truth behind Joc Bruce

Well crap. I have been on your side the entire time but this sentence raises an entire new question. Is a crime only a crime, if the the "victim" suffers the harshest possible result? I punch you for being a jackass, you die, I'm a murderer? I punch you for being a jackass and you live, I'm a hero?

(as much as I would love to pursue JP being a jackass, truth is, he is a likable jackass. Just don't tell him)

This is a really interesting quandary. Well, for those of us bored enough to ponder this. :focus:

Charger, I can't believe you have called me a jackass in public. That, sir, is verbal assault. And would be slander, if it weren't true (sadly, it might be). If you punch me for being a jackass, that will add battery to the charges. If you hurt me a lot so I cry, that makes it aggravated battery. Use brass knuckles or a shank while you punch me, and it's attempted murder.

You better hope I don't live through it, buster, or I'm definitely giving all your money away when Freak starts the pick 'em contest. I was kidding before. I'm super serial now.
 
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I'm quoting this statement to use your words against you. Yes, players get tossed from a game for hitting. They get punished in an appropriate manner. They don't just get kicked off the team. It's not considered assault.

In this case, you don't know who was involved. You don't know who started the altercation. You don't know how the coaches handled the punishment to either player. Seems to me, there's a lot you don't know.

I don't need to know anything except what I originally and repeatedly stated; if Croom (or whomever) slugged Bruce *not in defense*, it's assault. He could have Croom arrested, correct? So, an orange jersey and a coaching staff doesn't change that, only Bruce's reluctance to not make it a legal issue.
 
Charger, I can't believe you have called me a jackass in public. That, sir, is verbal assault. And would be slander, if it weren't true (sadly, it might be). If you punch me for being a jackass, that will add battery to the charges. If you hurt me a lot so I cry, that makes it aggravated battery. Use brass knuckles or a shank while you punch me, and it's attempted murder.

You better hope I don't live through it, buster, or I'm definitely giving all your money away when Freak starts the pick 'em contest. I was kidding before. I'm super serial now.

LOL.

To quote Dave Mustaine (Don't ask, we're too old)

Kill a man, you're a murderer. Kill many, you're a conqueror, kill 'em all, you're a god.
 
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4e414-make-it-stop.gif
 
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I don't need to know anything except what I originally and repeatedly stated; if Croom (or whomever) slugged Bruce *not in defense*, it's assault. He could have Croom arrested, correct? So, an orange jersey and a coaching staff doesn't change that, only Bruce's reluctance to not make it a legal issue.

Don't be so sure of that.

  • You can defend yourself.
  • You can also use physical force to defend others.
  • You can use physical force to defend your property.
  • Is that orange "T" the property of Joc Bruce? Or of the University of Tennessee?
  • Can another person use physical force to defend an institution and its traditions and values against physical assault? Can I use physical force to stop you from desecrating a public monument?
Hmm...

I'm no lawyer...but I'd love to get 5 lawyers in a room arguing over this one. :)
 
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NCFisher, I respect you. You've stood toe to toe and continued this discussion in spite of being outnumbered several fold, and that takes a significant measure of fortitude. I salute you for that.

But it comes down to this: Joc Bruce was not killed or seriously injured in that fight. Nor was Jason Croom or whatever team leader actually had that role. What happened was, two high-testosterone, very proud Tennessee football players had a fight over a team tradition. One was upheld by his coaches (and presumably all his teammates) for doing the right thing ... the other decided (or was helped to decide) that perhaps he belongs somewhere else.

That is just about all we think we know. We don't know anything about bullying. We don't know who threw the first punch, or whether it started with pushing and shoving, or whether there were more than two people involved. There's a great deal we don't know.

So our entire conversation about bullying and assault, it's meaningless. It's something we did to amuse ourselves while waiting for football season to get one day closer. Our team is, as far as we know, even healthier today than it was yesterday. Things are getting sorted out.

So I wish you the best for the rest of this evening. Maybe we can argue about baseball versus ballerinas tomorrow. :)

Hey, that was mild. You should hang out with my Russian and Iranian friends when we're talking issues over bourbon. Bet I'm the only Vol to have been threatened with the gulag and beheading in the same night.

I, too, appreciate the respectful exchange but will probably pass on the Bolshoi Orioles discussion. :)
 
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Hey, that was mild. You should hang out with my Russian and Iranian friends when we're talking issues over bourbon. Bet I'm the only Vol to have been threatened with the gulag and beheading in the same night.

I, too, appreciate the respectful exchange but will probably pass on the Bolshoi Orioles discussion. :)

I wish. Add an angry 5'2 Jew in, well, that was a party :)
 
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Joc Bruce was involved in what could be called bullying.Jason Croom hit Joc extremely hard in his jaw reason behind it I dont know. But after that he complained of having headaches and a lot of discomfort. He told his mother about what happened which leads me to believe he was afraid. The coaches knew about this but his mother didn't follow up with them about the attack. The kid was let down by his mother as well as the coaching staff they did not protect him. I understand upperclassmen pick on the new guy but this was more. After this altercation he was late for class several times and was suspended and well deserved. But I do believe Joc being afraid of Croom played a major role in this. The mother and the coaches failed this kid. I didn't make this up I grew up with his mom. This is non bias thread so please don't take it as if I'm throwing anyone under the bus. 100% true info

So what you are saying is Croom
 

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Don't be so sure of that.

  • You can defend yourself.
  • You can also use physical force to defend others.
  • You can use physical force to defend your property.
  • Is that orange "T" the property of Joc Bruce? Or of the University of Tennessee?
  • Can another person use physical force to defend an institution and its traditions and values against physical assault? Can I use physical force to stop you from desecrating a public monument?
Hmm...

I'm no lawyer...but I'd love to get 5 lawyers in a room arguing over this one. :)

ohhhh...NCFisher kryptonite

must...not...reply....
 
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If I were Butch I would make Croom run every step in Neyland. Croom is a Senior. He should know better. There are more important things to consider here.

Butch needs to make the message loud and crystal clear:

If you are a wide receiver who expects to play, dont punch the freshmen with your fists. Hit them with a stick or a bat. You can't catch a TD against Bama with a broken hand.

You have no clue what actually happened. So you have no clue what you would do if you were Butch....
 
You have no clue what actually happened. So you have no clue what you would do if you were Butch....

You might have missed the punch line to that one, Jarnol, it was pretty much just a very clever joke, disguised as a serious response. Read it again, all the way to the end this time :)
 
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Regardless of the reason, I hate to see him go. I want Kids that truly wanted to play for Tennessee, and hate for them not to do that.

Yeah, but truly wanting to play for Tennessee is going to lead to an attitude, behavior and work ethic that doesn't lead to this point. Truly wanting to play for Tennessee would make him eager to accept the responsibility of the privilege.
 
You might have missed the punch line to that one, Jarnol, it was pretty much just a very clever joke, disguised as a serious response. Read it again, all the way to the end this time :)

God, I can't keep giving you these free lessons so quit screwin' around and help me up.
 
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Without getting into the boring tort of assault, liability can attach with a verbal attack, a shove, a grabbing of clothing, poking a finger in someone’s face, yanking an arm. It was an altercation. The likelihood of Bruce engaging in some sort of harmful or offensive touching before he was punched is quite high. Filing a complaint wouldn't be in his best interest-- and I bet he has been advised of that.
 
Because I don't condone assault? Again, you people are insane. I've earned a wage since I was 10, never working outside the private sector and never requesting or allowing a dime from anyone. I'd suggest what you can do to yourself for thinking you know me, but we've enough coarseness as is.

"You people". Racist?
 
You have no clue what actually happened. So you have no clue what you would do if you were Butch....

Two things:
1: read the whole post. It was a joke. If you can't understand that then you need to delete your Volnation account and go back to lurking.

2: you have no clue what I have no clue about and about what clue I have. You have no clue who I am and therefore have no clue whether or not I have a clue about what I would do if I was Butch Jones. In fact, you have no clue whether or not I actually AM Butch Jones in disguise. Before you mouth off again I suggest you get a clue
 
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Two things:
1: read the whole post. It was a joke. If you can't understand that then you need to delete your Volnation account and go back to lurking.

2: you have no clue what I have no clue about and about what clue I have. You have no clue who I am and therefore have no clue whether or not I have a clue about what I would do if I was Butch Jones. In fact, you have no clue whether or not I actually AM Butch Jones in disguise. Before you mouth off again I suggest you get a clue

Colonel Mustard in the library with the candelabra.
 
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You might have missed the punch line to that one, Jarnol, it was pretty much just a very clever joke, disguised as a serious response. Read it again, all the way to the end this time :)

True.. My bad, missed the sticks or bats part. Lol
 
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