The Official New York Knicks Thread.

#101
#101
nbakerld said:
You watch and play sports, but you haven't studied statistics.
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Yes, I have. They just aren't very good at telling you who the good players are. In fact, basketball is probably the most misleading sport in terms of statistics. Do you really think Denver traded Melo for Chandler because they had a Billy Beane mindset?

milohimself said:
He's in the discussion as GOAT for a guy who can create offense for himself.
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For example, if the stats tell you anything but this, it's pretty obvious how incomplete they are.
 
#102
#102
VKAman said:
Yes, I have. They just aren't very good at telling you who the good players are. In fact, basketball is probably the most misleading sport in terms of statistics. Do you really think Denver traded Melo for Chandler because they had a Billy Beane mindset?
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So you took a college-level introductory statistics course, right?
 
#104
#104
Lose to the Cavs again. Great! Every stat in the world says NY should win, but they don't. That's why stats are unreliable. (except the NBA of course because this game was easily predicted)
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#106
#106
VKAman said:
Right.
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Yeah, I don't think you could appreciate what goes into the statistical analysis of sports until you do some of your own modeling. That's the tip of the iceberg. You learned about t-stats and confidence intervals but you don't know what they mean and how they are used.
 
#107
#107
bamacheats said:
Lose to the Cavs again. Great! Every stat in the world says NY should win, but they don't. That's why stats are unreliable. (except the NBA of course because this game was easily predicted)
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Nobody said stats are reliable for predicting 1 game. NBA experts can't predict 1 game with any accuracy, at least statisticians don't claim or pretend they can. Anything can happen in 1 game. Outcomes are random in a 1 game observation. You can see this from the fact that last night Melo shot 33%* from the field, 0% from 3 pt, 40% from the FT line, and had 5 TO's and the Knicks still won. All the other Knicks shooting the lights out in the 4th quarter with Melo on the bench was a random event.

Stats let us know what we should expect on average and they are usually very reliable in the NBA. They won't tell us what will happen in 1 game, but in a 7 game series they are usually pretty accurate.

*And talked crap to Wilkins after he sunk the shot that made him 6 for 18.
 
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#108
#108
nbakerld said:
Nobody said stats are reliable for predicting 1 game. NBA experts can't predict 1 game with any accuracy, at least statisticians don't claim or pretend they can. Anything can happen in 1 game. Outcomes are random in a 1 game observation. You can see this from the fact that last night Melo shot 33%* from the field, 0% from 3 pt, 40% from the FT line, and had 5 TO's and the Knicks still won. All the other Knicks shooting the lights out in the 4th quarter with Melo on the bench was a random event.

Stats let us know what we should expect on average and they are usually very reliable in the NBA. They won't tell us what will happen in 1 game, but in a 7 game series they are usually pretty accurate.

*And talked crap to Wilkins after he sunk the shot that made him 6 for 18.
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Stats also don't tell you that Melo about got his eye poked out and his skull crushed in that game which led to him sitting the final 10 min or that he played a great game defensively.

I'll believe the NBA is even moderately predictable when Vegas quits setting lines.
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#109
#109
bamacheats said:
Stats also don't tell you that Melo about got his eye poked out and his skull crushed in that game which led to him sitting the final 10 min or that he played a great game defensively.

I'll believe the NBA is even moderately predictable when Vegas quits setting lines.
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Interestingly, when I've looked at Vegas lines they tend to closely follow point differential stats.

If Melo's eye got poked out he shouldn't have taken 18 shots. He doesn't know how to stop shooting. They went up by like 15 when he came out.
 
#110
#110
nbakerld said:
Interestingly, when I've looked at Vegas lines they tend to closely follow point differential stats.

If Melo's eye got poked out he shouldn't have taken 18 shots. He doesn't know how to stop shooting. They went up by like 15 when he came out.
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Vegas uses way more than that. They set their lines for betters because that's the info they use.

Funny thing, Melo is such a horrific shooter, all those idiot opposing teams are intent on guarding him and often double teaming him. You've convinced us that he's black Stephen Pearl.
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#111
#111
nbakerld said:
Yeah, I don't think you could appreciate what goes into the statistical analysis of sports until you do some of your own modeling. That's the tip of the iceberg. You learned about t-stats and confidence intervals but you don't know what they mean and how they are used.
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I don't need any kind of statistical model to tell me that Carmelo Anthony is better than Wilson Chandler by leaps and bounds.
 
#112
#112
bamacheats said:
Stats also don't tell you that Melo about got his eye poked out and his skull crushed in that game which led to him sitting the final 10 min or that he played a great game defensively.

I'll believe the NBA is even moderately predictable when Vegas quits setting lines.
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Defense? What's that? I don't see any stats about it so it must not exist.
 
#113
#113
bamacheats said:
Vegas uses way more than that. They set their lines for betters because that's the info they use.

Funny thing, Melo is such a horrific shooter, all those idiot opposing teams are intent on guarding him and often double teaming him. You've convinced us that he's black Stephen Pearl.
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Why wouldn't they double him if he's bent on shooting 25 times regardless?
 
#117
#117
nbakerld said:
Rebounds, blocks, fouls, and steals.
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You're right, all those things are really effective at telling us how good a guy is at staying in front of people. Kevin Love and Darko Milicic are flat-out shutdown defenders.
 
#118
#118
VKAman said:
You're right, all those things are really effective at telling us how good a guy is at staying in front of people. Kevin Love and Darko Milicic are flat-out shutdown defenders.
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Like a glove.
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#119
#119
VKAman said:
You're right, all those things are really effective at telling us how good a guy is at staying in front of people. Kevin Love and Darko Milicic are flat-out shutdown defenders.
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The problem is you can count shutdown defenders on 2 hands (maybe 1). And even the shutdown defenders don't really "shut down". Show me 1 player who can consistently shut down Lebron (or any star). Prioritizing on-the-ball defense won't take you very far in the NBA. It's more about team D.
 
#120
#120
Also if you are ranking Amare and Melo as top 10 players then you probably don't think on-the-ball defense is that important either.
 
#121
#121
nbakerld said:
Also if you are ranking Amare and Melo as top 10 players then you probably don't think on-the-ball defense is that important either.
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I never said anything about Amare. Melo is a decent defender when he wants, and is an exception anyway because he's the most versatile scorer on the planet.
 
#122
#122
nbakerld said:
The problem is you can count shutdown defenders on 2 hands (maybe 1). And even the shutdown defenders don't really "shut down". Show me 1 player who can consistently shut down Lebron (or any star). Prioritizing on-the-ball defense won't take you very far in the NBA. It's more about team D.
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You broke down the example and ignored my topic sentence...don't try to tell me those guys are par for the course on defense.
 
#123
#123
VKAman said:
You broke down the example and ignored my topic sentence...don't try to tell me those guys are par for the course on defense.
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VKAman said:
You're right, all those things are really effective at telling us how good a guy is at staying in front of people. Kevin Love and Darko Milicic are flat-out shutdown defenders.
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So wait, what's your topic sentence? I thought I addressed your topic (on-the-ball defense) and ignored the example (Darko and Love). So I'm pretty confused here.

You really want me to address whether or not Love and Darko are par defenders? On-the-ball? Don't write home about them. Overall defender? Love > par, dude grabs 10 defensive rebounds a game. That is huge.
 
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#124
#124
Lighting it up against Utah! Watching this team without Deron Williams makes him that much better imo.

Melo - 34 pnts on 12/16 shooting

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#125
#125
bamacheats said:
Lighting it up against Utah! Watching this team without Deron Williams makes him that much better imo.

Melo - 34 pnts on 12/16 shooting

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My Jazz are terrible, though Favors will probably be a beast. Melo had a great game. Look at you, putting value on a shooting stat for once.
 
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