Dallasbowlin
Everything woke turns to sh*t
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Ellis was a 2x SEC POY.Point Guard: Bone. Excellent player on an excellent team. Everyone is probably ranked correctly, left to right.
Shooting Guard: This one is tough. Brooks had the offense (before the 3 pointer, I think), but not the defense. I'll go with Lofton, because he was so clutch. Hard to not choose Edwards. He could have made a lot of 3's.
Swing Man: King all day.
Power Forward: Grunfeld. Ellis was better in the pros than in college. It is hard to pick against Williams, but I did.
Center: Johnson. He shot near 66% one year, I think.
Sixth man: Harris. Wish he had stayed longer. Jackson scored a lot of points, but he was the forgotten man. Turner had a lot of heart, but does not make the all-time team for me.
A good option, but Ellis' college career and stats>Grant's.
You know I can’t say i recall that much about the early 80s but Ellis senior year the vols went 9-9 in the SEC.
Sure he averaged more pts than grant but from the looks of his win/loss record Grant made more winning plays than Ellis.
And Ellis never won more than 21 games while grant led his team to more than 25 wins in 2/3 years. That says a lot more to me they pts averaged.
I’d also venture a guess that the SEC wasn’t nearly as good in those years either.
Ellis was a 2x SEC POY.
You guessed wrong. Every team was solid. Even Miss State had Jeff Malone and Miss had Elston Turner. Barkley, Person, Vernon Maxwell, Dominique, Dale Brown, CM Newton, Hugh Durham, Sonny Smith, Joe B Hall. There were no easy outs in the SEC.
I know you think all things old are better but I didn’t guess wrong.
In 83 the year Ellis led the vols to a 9-9 record. The SEC had 4 teams in the tourney. A 3, 4,6 and a 9 seeded vol team.
In 19 the year Grant led his vols to a 15-3 SEC record the SEC had 7 teams in the tourney. The vols were a 2 seed, where the other SEC teams were 2,3,5, 7,8 and 10 seeds.
In 18 the year grant led the vols to a 13-5 SEC title where the vols were a 3 seed in the SEC tourney. There were 8 SEC teams in the tourney that year with seeds of 3, 4,5,6,7,7,8,9.
So yea the NCAA tourney was smaller in 83 but the seeds the sec had were higher in grants years and so was Tenn seed.
Sorry all things older aren’t better. The back in the day biased is real.
It just seems like to me that individual talents, abilities, and accomplishments should be considered in this kind of vote more than how the teams those individuals played on fared. Put Ellis on those teams Grant played for and he probably has more wins, too. If team success is a consideration, then Allan Houston has no business even being considered.You know I can’t say i recall that much about the early 80s but Ellis senior year the vols went 9-9 in the SEC.
Sure he averaged more pts than grant but from the looks of his win/loss record Grant made more winning plays than Ellis.
And Ellis never won more than 21 games while grant led his team to more than 25 wins in 2/3 years. That says a lot more to me they pts averaged.
I’d also venture a guess that the SEC wasn’t nearly as good in those years either.
It just seems like to me that individual talents, abilities, and accomplishments should be considered in this kind of vote more than how the teams those individuals played on fared. Put Ellis on those teams Grant played for and he probably has more wins, too. If team success is a consideration, then Allan Houston has no business even being considered.
So you're now declaring the 2018 and 2019 SEC superior to 1983 because 43% of the conference had NCAAT invitations versus 40%? You were doing better by "guessing" that the SEC was weak in the early 1980s.
Again, EVERY program in the early 1980s was playing high level basketball. Many programs had their all-time greatest players on their rosters. The conference schefule was home-and-home, round robin. There was no ducking of teams like #1 NCAAT seed LSU twice per season. There were no easy games.
It just seems like to me that individual talents, abilities, and accomplishments should be considered in this kind of vote more than how the teams those individuals played on fared. Put Ellis on those teams Grant played for and he probably has more wins, too. If team success is a consideration, then Allan Houston has no business even being considered.
It’s simple.
Look at the seeds. 18-19 had higher seeds than 83
and no every team wasn’t playing basketball at a high level in the SEC in 83. That’s ridiculous to say.
btw Arkansas and mizzu were dang good then
Okay, and Ellis was a better shooter, more efficient scorer, and got his hands on a lot more balls in play in the form of steals rather than blocking shots. Why did you gloss over those numbers?Sure it’s an “individual”
Type thinking that’s required but you can’t just look at points scored when looking at those individual skills. Grant did so many dirty work things that won games. Even taking the wins away from the thinking Williams was far better at rebounding, blocking shots and distributing to his teammates than Ellis was if you look at their stats. It has to be more than about scoring points and williams did it all far better than Ellis