The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

BruinVol

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Okay, and Ellis was a better shooter, more efficient scorer, and got his hands on a lot more balls in play in the form of steals rather than blocking shots. Why did you gloss over those numbers?

And saying GW was "far better at rebounding" is considerably overstating your position.

Williams:
15.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg, 1.5 bpg, 0.9 spg 54% 2 pt FG%, 75.8 FT%

Ellis:
17.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.9 apg, 0.3 bpg, 1.3 spg, 59.5% FG, 76.5% FT%

And this takes into account Ellis' freshman season when he wasn't the focal point of the team and only played about 20 mpg. Those numbers go way up if you remove that season.
I didn’t gloss over Ellis being a better shooter. I plainly said he was a better scorer but it’s also clear Williams had a higher affect on the games outcome that Ellis did. Defense,
Rebounding and distributing the ball are damn sure Important when it comes to wins and losses and Ellis was very very poor in the blocks and assist department. He was a solid rebounder but not as a good as williams
 
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BruinVol

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You "guessed" that the SEC wasn't "nearly as good" in the early 1980s. You guessed wrong.

There are twice as many at large bids now.

Georgia had their only Final Four in that era. Mississippi had one of their only 2 SECT championships from that era. There were no bad teams. Every school had high level basketball programs.
I Understand life was just better back when you had to walk miles to school and when there wasn’t a tv to watch but those 10
Programs in the SEC weren’t high level teams my friend in the early 80s.

I mean Lord Have Mercer Florida went 14-58 on the Those 4 years Ellis played at Tenn.

Old ain’t always better Oldtimer.
 

cncchris33

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I didn’t gloss over Ellis being a better shooter. I plainly said he was a better scorer it it’s also clear Williams had a higher affect on the games outcome that Ellis did. Defense,
Rebounding and distributing the ball are damn sure Important when it comes to wins and losses and Ellis was very very poor in the blocks and assist department. He was a solid rebounder but not as a good as williams
Defense comes in more forms than blocking shots. Ellis averaged 1.3 steals/gm for his career. He was a fine defender. Jordan Bowden, whom you have continuously lauded for his defense and called the best defensive player on the team, last year, averaged 1.0 spg for his career.

And again, I don't care about their respective team's win total. It is isn't important to the conversation but you keep bringing it up to strengthen your argument. Put Ellis on Grant's teams and see what happens. Put Grant of Ellis' teams and see what happens. It is totally hypothetical and involves things out of each player's control, so it isn't worth discussing.
 

BruinVol

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Defense comes in more forms than blocking shots. Ellis averaged 1.3 steals/gm for his career. He was a fine defender. Jordan Bowden, whom you have continuously lauded for his defense and called the best defensive player on the team, last year, averaged 1.0 spg for his career.

And again, I don't care about their respective team's win total. It is isn't important to the conversation but you keep bringing it up to strengthen your argument. Put Ellis on Grant's teams and see what happens. Put Grant of Ellis' teams and see what happens. It is totally hypothetical and involves things out of each player's control, so it isn't worth discussing.
I don’t recall Devoes defensive style but I do know that steals aren’t really a key part of Barnes style.
I loved Bowden as a defender because of his ability to keep his man in front of him not because of steals. I think of steals as a much more important stat for a coach like Pearl. Jmo
 
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I Understand life was just better back when you had to walk miles to school and when there wasn’t a tv to watch but those 10
Programs in the SEC weren’t high level teams my friend in the early 80s.

I mean Lord Have Mercer Florida went 14-58 on the Those 4 years Ellis played at Tenn.

Old ain’t always better Oldtimer.
You've failed to produce any valid argument that the SEC wasn't "nearly as good" in the early 1980s. Mississippi and Georgia had some of their best teams ever. If you want to play the look at Florida game, what about Vanderbilt now?

If you want to compare per game stats, how many more possessions are there with a shot clock versus without one?

BTW, Florida's coach was Norm Sloan. He came to FL with a natty and 5 ACC championships.

You keep digging your hole with that old man garbage. You should learn to admit that your comment that the "SEC wasn't NEARLY as good" was nonsense. It wasn't a 3-point contest back then either.
 
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For those that did see Ellis play would it be fair to say he played more of a 3 position than a 4?

And obviously the 3 pt line would have made him even better correct?
Ellis was often forced to play the 5. DE said that the reason that he came back for his senior year was because he wanted "Devoe" to help him improve his defense.
 

BruinVol

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You've failed to produce any valid argument that the SEC wasn't "nearly as good" in the early 1980s. Mississippi and Georgia had some of their best teams ever. If you want to play the look at Florida game, what about Vanderbilt now?

If you want to compare per game stats, how many more possessions are there with a shot clock versus without one?

BTW, Florida's coach was Norm Sloan. He came to FL with a natty and 5 ACC championships.

You keep digging your hole with that old man garbage. You should learn to admit that your comment that the "SEC wasn't NEARLY as good" was nonsense. It wasn't a 3-point contest back then either.
Look the sec was a solid league then no doubt but you said all the teams were playing At a high level and that simply is false.
Florida was God awful with auburn and miss state being poor over that time frame as well.

The proof that the league was better now was as I stated before just look at the overall seeds in the NCAA tourney.
I mean for goodness sakes in 82 when we tied Kentucky for the sec title they were a 6 and we were an 9 seed. Good grief that proves my point plenty.

btw that 6 seed Kentucky team lost to mtsu in the first round lol
 
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Look the sec was a solid league then no doubt but you said all the teams were playing At a high level and that simply is false.
Florida was God awful with auburn and miss state being poor over that time frame as well.

The proof that the league was better now was as I stated before just look at the overall seeds in the NCAA tourney.
I mean for goodness sakes in 82 when we tied Kentucky for the sec title they were a 6 and we were an 8 seed. Good grief that proves my point plenty.

btw that 6 seed Kentucky team lost to mtsu in the first round lol
I said that they were high level programs. Every one was. Even your doormat example of Florida hired a 5-time ACC championship coach with a natty. Hugh Durham had a Final Four at FL State... their best ever finish (runner up for the natty). Sonny Smith was a legend at Auburn as was Dale Brown at LSU. Elston Turner and Jeff Malone are arguably the GOATs at their respective Mississippi schools.

With 16 or 20 more at large bids, there would have been many more SEC schools in the NCAATs.
 

BruinVol

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I said that they were high level programs. Every one was. Even your doormat example of Florida hired a 5-time ACC championship coach with a natty. Hugh Durham had a Final Four at FL State... their best ever finish (runner up for the natty). Sonny Smith was a legend at Auburn as was Dale Brown at LSU. Elston Turner and Jeff Malone are arguably the GOATs at their respective Mississippi schools.

With 16 or 20 more at large bids, there would have been many more SEC schools in the NCAATs.
look the co-SEC champs in 82 were 6 and 8 seeds. That’s all that needs to be said that proves my point that the SEC wasn’t as strong then as it was in williams time.

That’s clear evidence your older is better memory is crystal clearly wrong
 
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look the co-SEC champs in 82 were 6 and 8 seeds. That’s all that needs to be said that proves my point that the SEC wasn’t as strong then as it was in williams time.

That’s clear evidence your older is better memory is crystal clearly wrong
It's clear that you don't understand what "not nearly as good" means. How a handful of people rank the NCAAT field is poor evidence for whatever it is that you're failing to prove.

I've not once claimed either era to be superior. You sound like a petulant child with all of your old man comments.
 

BruinVol

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It's clear that you don't understand what "not nearly as good" means. How a handful of people rank the NCAAT field is poor evidence for whatever it is that you're failing to prove.

I've not once claimed either era to be superior. You sound like a petulant child with all of your old man comments.
You ask for evidence and you got it. Sorry that your old school is better thinking was proven wrong.

it’s sad that the Sec champs were only seeded 6 and 8 in 82. Says a lot about how poorly the SEC was regarded that year.
Sad
 
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You ask for evidence and you got it. Sorry that your old school is better thinking was proven wrong.

it’s sad that the Sec champs were only seeded 6 and 8 in 82. Says a lot about how poorly the SEC was regarded that year.
Sad
SEC had a lot of EEs and FFs from 1980-1983. Yet you claim it was "not nearly as good". Stunning. Classic.
 

gainesvol82

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The SEC was much more of a premier league through Grant's career than Ellis'.

Much more high level competition and better basketball. Better top to bottom coaching staffs and more distribution of talent. No doubt in my mind that Grant is the second best player UT has had and is the best winner we have ever had.

I'd take our 2018-2019 team over any other team in UT history and I don't think it's very close.
 
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1983: 8 of the 10 SEC teams were 10-8, 9-9, or 8-10. When the entire league beats up on each other they don't get the NCAAT seeds that top heavy league leaders get by beating up on the cellar dwellers and padding their records.
 

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