The Impeachment Thread

#22,702
#22,702
I believe that I'm only pointing out that
C-south said:
Lol. You keep comparing two totally different things. Hillary had actual physical evidence of her crimes. The FBI stated her guilt but chose to let her off without being tried. The AG was in on it as well. With Trump you have partisan hacks with second hand information giving their opinion on what “they believe”. Not a shred of actual evidence just thoughts on what “they think” might’ve happened. Worst case they say Trump was wrong but investigate Biden and them other dims with shady Ukraine dealings but we know that won’t happen. That would be a waste of tax dollars....right?
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Nope just pointing out that a belief is a belief. You're the one trying to...how did you say it earlier? Move the goalpost?

Be careful this is a defense used often and there's a guy on here that using other's defense strategy makes him pretty upset.

You're a good guy. I'm just simply pointing out that a belief is not a fact. You want to believe things and you use your definition of guilt to do so. Your belief of the definition of guilt guides your beliefs. We differ in where guilt is established.

I believe guilt of a crime is established following the judicial processes outlined by all governing applicable laws.

You believe it's when someone from the FBI says you're guilty.

One of us followed the laws and believes in the legal process and refuses to assume guilt and the other just made up his own belief.

Kind if makes you come off a little egomaniacal.
 
#22,703
#22,703
JCP201 said:
That isn't what shocked me. Vindman hasn't done anything except what he was suppose to do. Same with Taylor and Hill. Alarm bells went off and they showed concern/reported it. He has done nothing to warrant suspicion but apparently he should be subjected to a criminal investigation because Flynn?

I mean, it's one thing to pretend to be neutral, but this is beyond silly.
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I wasn't saying investigate him. Or at least that's not what was meant. Would he stand up to investigation though? I didn't make the comparison between Flynn and Vindman, but it was made. Some act as if Vindman is beyond reproach because of his service. He's not, and neither was Flynn.

And just being honest, I think this whole mess has been more political theater than anything substantive. And personally, I think any case the Dems may have had was damaged by secret testimony and Schiff's rules. So yeah, I question the testimony of everyone involved. I'm not saying Trump is innocent, but IMO, the Dems have not proven guilt. I think they've raised legitimate questions, but that doesn't equate to proving their case. But I also believe that each side, Dem or GOP, is going to believe their side has somehow won. Personally, I think we've all lost.
 
#22,704
#22,704
Weezer said:
It's not that I don't think the truth is unknowable, but politics seem to change what people see as truth. Many people believe what they want to believe without ever entertaining the truth. Take Luther as an example.
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Come on Weezer.
I guess we can make a deal.
I'll be your example of someone who primarily sees the truth they wish to see.
And you can be my example of someone who ignores truth in order to normalize the abnormal and equalize the unequal.
 
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#22,705
#22,705
RockyTop85 said:
I’m not going to deny that that happens but you’re taking it to the extent of “anybody saying 4 must be a democrat.”
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Not at all. I think both sides are capable of the exact same things. I'm not favoring one side over the other. I despise both equally as I don't think either puts the interests of the country first. People talk about Trump putting personal interests first. Should we be totally surprised when both parties put their interests first as well? Country seems to run a distant second IMO no matter who's in office.
 
#22,707
#22,707
luthervol said:
Come on Weezer.
I guess we can make a deal.
I'll be your example of someone who primarily sees the truth they wish to see.
And you can be my example of someone who ignores truth in order to normalize the abnormal and equalize the unequal.
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Your opinion is not truth. We've been over this.
 
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#22,708
#22,708
Weezer said:
Not at all. I think both sides are capable of the exact same things. I'm not favoring one side over the other. I despise both equally as I don't think either puts the interests of the country first. People talk about Trump putting personal interests first. Should we be totally surprised when both parties put their interests first as well? Country seems to run a distant second IMO no matter who's in office.
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Which presumes that Vindman has “a side.”

Like @JCP201 said, he’s done nothing to suggest that.

So you’re looking at his answer and saying “well 4 is closer to 3 so he must be a democrat so he can’t be trusted so we can’t trust that the answer is 4.”

Its absurd circular logic with no application of common sense.
 
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#22,709
#22,709
RockyTop85 said:
Which presumes that Vindman has “a side.”
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I don't think it's beyond the possibility he has a side. I'm not sure how many times I have to mention I'm suspicious of anyone involved in politics for the point to be made. If it helps, I don't believe it's definitive he has a side.
 
#22,711
#22,711
Weezer said:
I don't think it's beyond the possibility he has a side. I'm not sure how many times I have to mention I'm suspicious of anyone involved in politics for the point to be made. If it helps, I don't believe it's definitive he has a side.
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Common sense is the tie breaker. watch the hearings and make up your own mind.
 
#22,712
#22,712
RockyTop85 said:
Which presumes that Vindman has “a side.”

Like @JCP201 said, he’s done nothing to suggest that.

So you’re looking at his answer and saying “well 4 is closer to 3 so he must be a democrat so he can’t be trusted so we can’t trust that the answer is 4.”

Its absurd circular logic with no application of common sense.
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As to your edit, I didn't say any of that. I said people are going to believe what they want to believe. Everyone seems to think truth is simple, but it rarely is. The left may want to believe 2+2=3 while the right may want to believe 2+2=5. The truth is found in the middle, but getting there, getting people to agree, that's where it gets hard.
 
#22,713
#22,713
Weezer said:
Do you know the man personally? If not, how can you really know his integrity? Lots of good people have done bad things throughout history. I've not said Vindman is one of them, but you seem to think I have. I've just said using the "Purple Heart" argument doesn't mean he is beyond reproach. Hell, I've even said that Trump supporters will be more inclined to attack/question him. Perhaps I've made my point poorly, or maybe you just don't want to see my point.
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I do not know the man. Same question to you, do you know him?

I'll assume you do not and thus you're willing to pass judgement or question the integrity on a person of which you have no first hand information about who has dedicated his career to service of our country.

Sounds unpatriotic to bring into question a decorated service members integrity without a basis of fact to do so. Maybe you're cool with doing that. I'm happy people like Lt. Col. Vindman exist to protect your right to make a foolish point.

Not saying because you served makes you a perfect soul and incapable of committing a crime (see Michael Flynn as an example) but his service and work history definitely have earned him respect which should be honored and respected by all Americans.

If you feel differently again that's your right. We can agree to disagree. That's exactly what honorable men and women who serve or have served were willing to risk/give their lives for. They serve for our protection under the constitution of the United States of America.
 
#22,718
#22,718
Ty4Vols said:
I do not know the man. Same question to you, do you know him?

I'll assume you do not and thus you're willing to pass judgement or question the integrity on a person of which you have no first hand information about who has dedicated his career to service of our country.

Sounds unpatriotic to bring into question a decorated service members integrity without a basis of fact to do so. Maybe you're cool with doing that. I'm happy people like Lt. Col. Vindman exist to protect your right to make a foolish point.

Not saying because you served makes you a perfect soul and incapable of committing a crime (see Michael Flynn as an example) but his service and work history definitely have earned him respect which should be honored and respected by all Americans.

If you feel differently again that's your right. We can agree to disagree. That's exactly what honorable men and women who serve or have served were willing to risk/give their lives for. They serve for our protection under the constitution of the United States of America.
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lmao It's unpatriotic to question someone who has served, but also not unpatriotic to question someone who has served. You seem a bit confused. I respect the service of Vindman. I respect the service of Flynn. That makes neither perfect or above reproach.

Plenty of people on this board who have served, and I'm willing to bet you've disrespected some of them. You should be ashamed of being so unpatriotic.
 
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#22,719
#22,719
Weezer said:
Not at all. I think both sides are capable of the exact same things. I'm not favoring one side over the other. I despise both equally as I don't think either puts the interests of the country first. People talk about Trump putting personal interests first. Should we be totally surprised when both parties put their interests first as well? Country seems to run a distant second IMO no matter who's in office.
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Not equally true of all presidents. Quit equalizing and normalizing. That's the problem.
Are any great? nope
Are any good? maybe
Are they all bad? maybe
But they sure as hell are not all equally bad.
 
#22,721
#22,721
Weezer said:
Your opinion is not truth. We've been over this.
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It can be and often is.
It's my opinion the earth is not flat.
It's another's opinion that the earth is flat.
One opinion is right and one opinion is wrong.
We've been over this.
 
#22,724
#22,724
luthervol said:
Not equally true of all presidents. Quit equalizing and normalizing. That's the problem.
Are any great? nope
Are any good? maybe
Are they all bad? maybe
But they sure as hell are not all equally bad.
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How good or bad a President is happens to be a matter of opinion. You think Obama was a great POTUS. Any number of posters here think he was awful. You think Trump is the worst ever. Plenty of posters think he's great. I didn't/don't like either. See how opinion works, Luther.
 
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