The Impeachment Thread

#22,727
#22,727
luthervol said:
It can be and often is.
It's my opinion the earth is not flat.
It's another's opinion that the earth is flat.
One opinion is right and one opinion is wrong.
We've been over this.
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The earth is not flat isn't an opinion, lol. Further shows your confusion of what is fact and what is opinion.
 
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#22,731
#22,731
C-south said:
Lol. You keep comparing two totally different things. Hillary had actual physical evidence of her crimes. The FBI stated her guilt but chose to let her off without being tried. The AG was in on it as well. With Trump you have partisan hacks with second hand information giving their opinion on what “they believe”. Not a shred of actual evidence just thoughts on what “they think” might’ve happened. Worst case they say Trump was wrong but investigate Biden and them other dims with shady Ukraine dealings but we know that won’t happen. That would be a waste of tax dollars....right?
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You keep saying the FBI stated Hillary was guilty. I have carefully reviewed many news articles and cannot find the word guilty used by the FBI in any official statement.
How did you come to the conclusion of guilt when the FBI stated they believed she mishandled information and they said she should be prosecuted?

In my knowledge of the law and the english language neither of those are synonyms for guilty.

It's your belief of guilt. Which unfortunately is a incorrect belief in accordance to the law. It's almost like you presume guilt of Hillary. Nope it's exactly like you have presumed her guilty.
 
#22,734
#22,734
RockyTop85 said:
I thought you said you weren’t taking sides and didn’t know what the truth was?
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Have I taken a side? I don't believe I have. I just don't agree that you and those who have responded are 2+2=4 people. Certainly not Luther who thinks whether the Earth is round or flat is an opinion.
 
#22,735
#22,735
Weezer said:
Have I taken a side? I don't believe I have. I just don't agree that you and those who have responded are 2+2=4 people. Certainly not Luther who thinks whether the Earth is round or flat is an opinion.
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2+2=4 is an objective truth. By assigning a value other than 4 to what we’re saying, you’re saying we’re objectively wrong. That is incompatible with your claim of not knowing what the truth is and not having chosen a side.

You can’t say “I have no idea what the truth is,” and then also say “that’s not the truth.” It kind of gives up the game.
 
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#22,736
#22,736
Weezer said:
How good or bad a President is happens to be a matter of opinion. You think Obama was a great POTUS. Any number of posters here think he was awful. You think Trump is the worst ever. Plenty of posters think he's great. I didn't/don't like either. See how opinion works, Luther.
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There are objective measures by which one can determine which presidents are more successful than others.

It's not all "I like X but don't like Y."
 
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#22,737
#22,737
volinsd said:
You keep saying this
Nobody believes it
Its ran its course
You have accomplished nothing
Please come up with your own intelligent argument
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You literally called me out for not using my own intelligent argument right after saying you were going to steal someone else's arguement.
You're hypocrisy is showing! Screenshot_20191122-184106_Chrome.jpg
 
#22,738
#22,738
RockyTop85 said:
2+2=4 is an objective truth. By assigning a value other than 4 to what we’re saying, you’re saying we’re objectively wrong. That is incompatible with your claim of not knowing what the truth is and not having chosen a side.

You can’t say “I have no idea what the truth is,” and then also say “that’s not the truth.” It kind of gives up the game.
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Is this how you argue a case to a jury? Just curious.

Listen, I've never said Vindman was guilty of anything. I've also never said he's innocent of everything. Our knowledge of any given situation is based upon personal observation and interpretation. You must face this with juries. The point I've made all along, the one that seems misinterpreted, or misrepresented, is what we believe is shaped by what we want to believe. Vindman may be a good and decent man, but at the same time, those on the left want to believe that. He could also be a tool in a game to unseat the POTUS, which is what the right wants to believe. Our picture of the man is limited to what we see on TV in his testimony. How credible that testimony is depends on who you ask. Is that really so incomprehensible?
 
#22,739
#22,739
Velo Vol said:
There are objective measures by which one can determine which presidents are more successful than others.

It's not all "I like X but don't like Y."
Click to expand...

Those measures tend to come more into play after years pass. When people look back on Trump and see those measures, the economy, unemployment numbers, etc., how do you think he will fare? Does that really make him a good POTUS?
 
#22,740
#22,740
Weezer said:
Is this how you argue a case to a jury? Just curious.

Listen, I've never said Vindman was guilty of anything. I've also never said he's innocent of everything. Our knowledge of any given situation is based upon personal observation and interpretation. You must face this with juries. The point I've made all along, the one that seems misinterpreted, or misrepresented, is what we believe is shaped by what we want to believe. Vindman may be a good and decent man, but at the same time, those on the left want to believe that. He could also be a tool in a game to unseat the POTUS, which is what the right wants to believe. Our picture of the man is limited to what we see on TV in his testimony. How credible that testimony is depends on who you ask. Is that really so incomprehensible?
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Do I tell juries to use their common sense in evaluating the credibility of witnesses? Every. Single. Time.

If I had a case where I had to resort to “I don’t know anything that could lead me to say that these witnesses are lying, but they all testified that my client is guilty so they must be biased so the truth is unknowable and that’s a reasonable doubt” I’d get laughed the **** out of Court and my client would go to prison.
 
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#22,743
#22,743
RockyTop85 said:
Do I tell juries to use their common sense in evaluating the credibility of witnesses? Every. Single. Time.

If I had a case where I had to resort to “I don’t know anything that could lead me to say that these witnesses are lying, but they all testified that my client is guilty so they must be biased so the truth is unknowable and that’s a reasonable doubt” I’d get laughed the **** out of Court and my client would go to prison.
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Again, I think you misinterpret my point. What's the old saying? "Truth is subjective". When you're working a jury, do you believe they all see testimony the same? Or do some put more emphasis on certain testimony that others do not?

Also, do you feel the case against Trump has been proven?
 
#22,745
#22,745
Weezer said:
How good or bad a President is happens to be a matter of opinion. You think Obama was a great POTUS. Any number of posters here think he was awful. You think Trump is the worst ever. Plenty of posters think he's great. I didn't/don't like either. See how opinion works, Luther.
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I do see how that works Weezer.
Some were of the opinion that slavery was good. Some had the opinion that it was bad.
Some are of the opinion that the Earth is flat. Some are of the opinion that it is spherical.
Some are of the opinion that pepperoni pizza is best. Some are of the opinion that sausage is best.
Some were of the opinion that women should not vote. Some were of the opinion that women should.
Some are of the opinion that global warming is a hoax. Some are of the opinion that global warming is based in science.
Some are of the opinion that Lincoln was a great president. Some are of the opinion he was one of the worst.

Some opinions are more rooted in fact than others. Some opinions are more widely held than others.
And here is the real kicker; some opinions are worth more than others.
If a renowned doctor tells me that in their opinion I should have surgery, it carries a little more weight than if the clerk at Kroger tells me the same.
If a renowned scientist says that in their opinion global warming is a fact, it carries more weight than if the Jimmy John's delivery boy tells me that in their opinion global warming is a hoax.
And then there is that whole widely held issue. If 9 out of 10 experts have the same opinion, you would have to be an idiot to take the opinion of the one.
 
#22,746
#22,746
Weezer said:
The earth is not flat isn't an opinion, lol. Further shows your confusion of what is fact and what is opinion.
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Sure it is. There are plenty who say there is no definitive proof that it is spherical and that their understanding of the facts lead them to the opinion that it is round.
Now you and I both believe that it is fact and not opinion. But that is really just our opinion.
I believe it is factual that Trump is the worst ever, but many view that as just an opinion.
When the majority of the experts hold the same opinion and the majority of the rest accept their opinion as truth, then that opinion starts approaching fact on the continuum.
 
#22,747
#22,747
luthervol said:
Sure it is. There are plenty who say there is no definitive proof that it is spherical and that their understanding of the facts lead them to the opinion that it is round.
Now you and I both believe that it is fact and not opinion. But that is really just our opinion.
I believe it is factual that Trump is the worst ever, but many view that as just an opinion.
When the majority of the experts hold the same opinion and the majority of the rest accept their opinion as truth, then that opinion starts approaching fact on the continuum.
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You're really making their case every time to you say the earth is flat.
You said earlier if 9 out of 10 doctors said something you would be an odiot to not take their opinion.
Well I ask, if every other planet, star and moon we can see is round and we have never discovered another flat planet...
I hope you get the point my guy.
 
#22,749
#22,749
luthervol said:
Come on Weezer.
I guess we can make a deal.
I'll be your example of someone who primarily sees the truth they wish to see.
And you can be my example of someone who ignores truth in order to normalize the abnormal and equalize the unequal.
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Its almost as if you actually think you are god Luther. Like you are the only person on the planet who decides right or wrong. I actually believe you need help in real life brother. I hope you get it.
 
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