The Impeachment Thread

#31,901
#31,901
Septic said:
They drug Trump through the mud for two years over the election interference issues. It's naive to think that many of their goals weren't met, Pelosi is politicking circles around the whole of the GOP and it's not debatable. I mean, she just impeached the g.d. president.
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She did, but do you think anyone really cares?
 
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#31,902
#31,902
BowlBrother85 said:
No, it's not... because you can't say for certain, that it would in fact, help the Democrats. The fact is, we don't know how the testimony of the witnesses she wants to see called - Mick Mulvaney, Mike Pompeo and John Bolton - would go. It might help the Democrats, or it might not.
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But you all can say for certain that Biden is "Trump's opponent."
 
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#31,903
#31,903
luthervol said:
This much we do know: Whatever Donald Trump knows about Ukraine, he didn’t read it in a book. That leaves Twitter and, according to the Washington Post’s report, Vladimir Putin as possible fonts of totally reliable information on which the president of the United States relies. Senior aides told the Post that throughout Trump’s time in the White House, the president has regurgitated information believed to have been relayed during his private meetings with the Russian president. What did Putin have to say? It was Urkaine, not little old Russia, that was the real culprit behind the 2016 election interference—all in an attempt to take down Trump’s candidacy. It was a conspiracy theory that served both men.

The Post surveyed 15 former administration and government officials for their views on how Trump’s brain glommed on to Ukraine being the real villain, a conspiracy theory that the president has been harping on since he stepped foot in the White House in January 2017. After Trump and Putin had a bizarre private meeting on the sidelines of the July 2017 G-20 summit in Hamburg, where Trump later demanded the U.S. interpreter’s notes, aides told the Post that Trump grew even more insistent Ukraine was the true election meddler. This seed of misinformation sprouted in Trump’s mind despite repeated declarations from his own intelligence community that Russia, not Ukraine, had taken active measures to influence the election result. According to a Trump adviser, at one point, the president substantiated his views on Ukraine saying: “Putin told me.” “He would say: ‘This is ridiculous. Everyone knows I won the election. The greatest election in the world. The Russians didn’t do anything. The Ukrainians tried to do something,’ ” one former official said of Trump’s thinking.
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You mean, the Politico report Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire
Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire
Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton.

just days after his inauguration, and Ukrainian officials being convicted in Dec. 2018 for U.S. election interference, couldn't possibly have anything to do with it? As well as his own avenues of info since he is the president?

That a glaring omitting of exculpatory information. Have you considered a career with the FBI?
 
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#31,904
#31,904
A perfect retweet.

EMSAuZNXYAAGDI_
 
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#31,906
#31,906
RockyTop85 said:
They don't have to wait on the legal system at all.
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If the senate carries on without the official handover from the house, then can the house come back with "doesn't matter how far you ran, we never gave you the ball?" Like you took it on yourself to do something, but we never gave you the official originating document, so the matter is still open.
 
#31,910
#31,910
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
Leftist Harvard Law Professor Noah Feldman who testified on behalf of the Democrats says President Trump isn't actually impeached until Pelosi sends the articles to the other side of Capitol Hill. According to the Constitution, impeachment is a process......not just a vote. If the House doesn't communicate it's impeachment to the Senate, it actually hasn't impeached the president.

Oops! Leftist Law Professor Who Testified for Democrats: Actually, Trump Isn't Impeached Yet
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I'm thinking the dims are in deep doo doo if it ain't over til the fat lady sings. Pelosi may be a lot of things, but she's not fat, and she's certainly no lady. However, she is "in charge" and maybe can't end the debacle.
 
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#31,911
#31,911
1972 Grad said:
Tax revenue is up, even with the tax cuts. It always is. As Hog said, we have a spending problem, no matter who is in charge.
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Yes I agree. But you can’t claim to be fixing the problem if you don’t address spending. Off the top of my head I believe education spending went up 12% and military up 7%. He has to cut **** and he refuses to. And yes he doesn’t write the budget. But he signs off. I would be far more inclined to have his back if he had kept this biatch shut down. But he didn’t. So no he doesn’t get a pass .
 
#31,912
#31,912
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
What Trump is doing for the American people is a whole lot better than the last do-nothing 8 year pos Dim.
If you mean to embrace him for doing the good work for the American people then yeah. Don't care for your respect. You mean very little to me. You'd like to see America completely destroyed just to have your guy/gal in power.
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I'll bet luther is waiting for Aunt Jemima to come rolling out on the stage, take the dim presidential nomination by storm, and bump the new GA "gloriously" into the limelight.
 
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#31,913
#31,913
NCFisher said:
You mean, the Politico report Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire
Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire
Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton.

just days after his inauguration, and Ukrainian officials being convicted in Dec. 2018 for U.S. election interference, couldn't possibly have anything to do with it? As well as his own avenues of info since he is the president?

That a glaring omitting of exculpatory information. Have you considered a career with the FBI?
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Diplomat testified that Putin, Orban poisoned Trump’s views on Ukraine
Senior State Department official George Kent told House investigators that Trump's views on Ukraine changed after conversations with the leaders of Russia and Hungary.
A senior U.S. diplomat told Congress that he was briefed on conversations President Donald Trump had with Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban in which the two foreign leaders talked Trump into a negative view about Ukraine and its new leader.

Putin pulling the strings.
 
#31,914
#31,914
luthervol said:


Diplomat testified that Putin, Orban poisoned Trump’s views on Ukraine
Senior State Department official George Kent told House investigators that Trump's views on Ukraine changed after conversations with the leaders of Russia and Hungary.
A senior U.S. diplomat told Congress that he was briefed on conversations President Donald Trump had with Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban in which the two foreign leaders talked Trump into a negative view about Ukraine and its new leader.

Putin pulling the strings.
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Did you know Trump wants to place ABM weapons in Poland as deterrence against Russia? Who am I kidding. Of course not.

Edited for clarification: Includes withdrawal from INF Treaty, ABM missiles, and permanent basing of US troops
 
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#31,917
#31,917
McDad said:
What has been does not set what will be.
We can change it. Change the dialogue. Change the approach. Change the motivation. We can. I don't think we want to, though.
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If someone from one party can't initiate an investigation of someone of the other party for wrongdoing, then I don't see change. Only motivation to take what you can because there's no one to stop you. It looks like the real abuse of power in the past few years has been rogue three letter agencies initiating unwarranted investigations based on personal political bias.
 
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#31,920
#31,920
hog88 said:
Who writes and has written the vast majority of our laws?
What profession has dominated congress for the last several decades?
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And obviously they aren't very good at it. For a bunch of lawyers, you'd think congress could write laws that don't have to go to courts to be interpreted, redirected, rewritten, declared constitutional (or not), etc.
 
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#31,921
#31,921
Weezer said:
So QPQs are fine and dandy for political gain, because political gain is what she's seeking. Ultimately it does benefit her, so there is a touch of personal gain as well.
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QPQ rules of engagement (and a lot of other abuses) are party, gender, and sexual deviance specific. If the new way is the right way, I'll be damned if I can figure out how the US made it to the top of the heap during the 20th century. If the new order has it's way, though, there's no doubt about where the country is headed.
 
#31,922
#31,922
C-south said:
Yet you don’t see the impartiality in the party line vote for impeachment in the house. Lol.
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They absolutely do. To all good dims the republicans were being obstructionists ... again. Dims are sure they did the right thing, and the other side refused to agree because of political bias and political/personal gain. Luther can better explain it using the approved party line I'm sure.
 
#31,923
#31,923
BowlBrother85 said:
There are good articles in both "Newsweek" and "Business Insider" about how Jared Kushner got into Harvard. It's basically the same type of activity as the college admissions scandal that has ensnared Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman. Daddy bought his way in... with some help from an administrator who was on the take.
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Except for minority privilege how do you think anybody gets into an ivy league college. They buy it ... just like the Kennedy clan and others have for decades. It's basically a circular racket, but as long as they are private schools ... Those few who do attend on merit are necessary to make the "research" look good.
 
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#31,924
#31,924
AM64 said:
If someone from one party can't initiate an investigation of someone of the other party for wrongdoing, then I don't see change. Only motivation to take what you can because there's no one to stop you. It looks like the real abuse of power in the past few years has been rogue three letter agencies initiating unwarranted investigations based on personal political bias.
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There is also an abuse of power associated with leveraging military aid to country at war, against their President's willingness to announce an investigation into a political opponent.

...and in the best interest of the facts: The Inspector General, Michael Horowitz, concluded that the origins of the Russia probe were legitimate and that there was no evidence that a political bias played a role in the origins of the investigation.
 
#31,925
#31,925
luthervol said:


Diplomat testified that Putin, Orban poisoned Trump’s views on Ukraine
Senior State Department official George Kent told House investigators that Trump's views on Ukraine changed after conversations with the leaders of Russia and Hungary.
A senior U.S. diplomat told Congress that he was briefed on conversations President Donald Trump had with Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban in which the two foreign leaders talked Trump into a negative view about Ukraine and its new leader.

Putin pulling the strings.
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Back to your last post - here are the numerous ways it's BS since your source is BS:
  1. The Crowdstrike theory first came from Manafort in the summer of 2106. Some think it originated with C. Kliminik, but appears unknown.
  2. Politico has a lengthy article Jan 11, 2017 (nine days before inauguration) of how Ukraine officials tried to sabotage the 2016 election in favor of Clinton. (that would be *against* Trump)
  3. In April 2017, Trump related the Crowdstrike server theory to the AP.

----notice the dates here? All well before the date in your last post "Trump and Putin had a bizarre private meeting on the sidelines of the July 2017 G-20 summit in Hamburg", in which the writer imputes Trump was "influenced" by Putin regarding Ukraine culpability.

So that was crap.

But let's go with the new dates, moving forward into 2019: Democrat Senator (Sheehan) stunned! - by Trump-Russia meme even in 2019!
Shocker news....yawn! and I'd opine the good senator has been 'stunned' for awhile.

U.S. presidents dealing with Ukraine corruption goes back awhile; Clinton signed a reciprocal Treaty with Ukraine on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters in Oct. 2000. To hear the left, though, you'd think Trump just invented it as a cover story, even as footage of Unkie Joe is splashed saying "fire the prosecutor or you ain't getting the billion". This is literally walking the razor's edge of Orwellian Newspeak insanity, and hoping some of us won't notice.

It doesn't appear Trump had his mind made up on Zelensky at all, despite whomever was whispering what in his ear. For the third year in a row, he questioned whether the U.S. was throwing good money into a corrupt hole, why wasn't Europe doing something to help Ukraine, and then - third year in a row - released lethal aid.

Which the Obama WH didn't do; can't piss off Putin.
Even while threatening to withhold a billion in blanket aid, denying Ukraine their "throw it over the Russkie heads and noogie them" tactic.

Back to my post which you didn't respond to: how is it a meeting in July 2017 assumes primary importance in your mind, but a non-conservative news site reports 9 days before inauguration that Ukraine attempted to sabotage the U.S. election, doesn't register with you?? Neither does Trump's 3-year history of appraising corruption in Ukraine and U.S. aid, as presidents have been doing for decades? Neither does the conviction of Ukraine officials for that interference in Dec. 2018.
 
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