The Impeachment Thread

#31,777
#31,777
luthervol said:
You guys keep overlooking that "solely for personal gain" component.
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Exactly. Nobody has ever said that a "quid-pro-quo" ultimatum is necessarily illegal, or even unethical. It's when that ultimatum has only been made in order to advance the personal interests of the person making it, where we have a problem. Trump is such a doofus.
 
#31,779
#31,779
luthervol said:
You guys keep overlooking that "solely for personal gain" component.
Click to expand...
BowlBrother85 said:
Exactly. Nobody has ever said that a "quid-pro-quo" ultimatum is necessarily illegal, or even unethical. It's when that ultimatum has only been made in order to advance the personal interests of the person making it, where we have a problem. Trump is such a doofus.
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So QPQs are fine and dandy for political gain, because political gain is what she's seeking. Ultimately it does benefit her, so there is a touch of personal gain as well.
 
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#31,780
#31,780
Weezer said:
So QPQs are fine and dandy for political gain, because political gain is what she's seeking. Ultimately it does benefit her, so there is a touch of personal gain as well.
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That's why I specifically said "solely for personal gain". Even "primarily for personal gain" would have made it wrong.
 
#31,784
#31,784
Weezer said:
So QPQs are fine and dandy for political gain, because political gain is what she's seeking. Ultimately it does benefit her, so there is a touch of personal gain as well.
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You can argue that Pelosi's attempts to have witnesses called in the Senate trial are misplaced and will ultimately be futile, but she isn't leveraging anything against the Republican's willingness to do something of direct benefit to her. After all, nobody even knows how that witness testimony would turn out. It could benefit the Democrats case for Trump's removal from office, or it might not?
 
#31,786
#31,786
luthervol said:
You can't be serious.
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She's attempting to extort the U.S. Senate to get her way, hoping for a favorable outcome. Does that sound on the up and up to you? If a Pub was doing this, you'd be outraged. So yeah, I'm serious.
 
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#31,787
#31,787
BowlBrother85 said:
You can argue that Pelosi's attempts to have witnesses called in the Senate trial are misplaced and will ultimately be futile, but she isn't leveraging anything against the Republican's willingness to do something of direct benefit to her. After all, nobody even knows how that witness testimony would turn out. It could benefit the Democrats case for Trump's removal from office, or it might not?
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If it helps her party, it helps her. Directly, indirectly, it's still personal gain.
 
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#31,789
#31,789
C-south said:
Sounds like she’s set up for a life full of misery if that was tear worthy.
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She's actually setting herself up quite well for life. She is kind hearted and a thinker which can lead to some times of disappointment, but that's a trade off she willingly makes.
 
#31,790
#31,790
Weezer said:
If it helps her party, it helps her. Directly, indirectly, it's still personal gain.
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And if it helps America it helps her because she's an American.
And if it helps humanity it helps her because she is human.

It's obvious that Trump's QPQ was for personal gain and Pelosi's is not. That's honestly not even a debatable point.
 
#31,791
#31,791
Weezer said:
She's attempting to extort the U.S. Senate to get her way, hoping for a favorable outcome. Does that sound on the up and up to you? If a Pub was doing this, you'd be outraged. So yeah, I'm serious.
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That is not accurate, because the Republican Party doesn't have a "need" for the Articles of Impeachment. In fact, the Senate Republicans would much rather NEVER receive them. You are drawing a false equivalency. The Ukraine is at war with Russia, who has acted as an aggressor nation against them. The Ukraine did have a very clear "need" for the $391 million in military aid that Trump withheld from them from the middle of July until September 11th - all for the purpose of using that military aid as leverage against President Zelensky's willingness to announce an investigation into the Bidens on CNN in September, and in doing so, advance Trump's chances of winning re-election next November.
 
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#31,792
#31,792
luthervol said:
And if it helps America it helps her because she's an American.
And if it helps humanity it helps her because she is human.

It's obvious that Trump's QPQ was for personal gain and Pelosi's is not. That's honestly not even a debatable point.
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Because a politician making 200k a year and worth over 100 mil is looking out for America.
 
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#31,793
#31,793
C-south said:
Quid pro quo or as the dims felt the need to dumb down for their base......bribery.
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That whole terminology focus group was to find what would most effectively hit home with the borderline redhatters, so you decide if it was dumbing it down.
 
#31,794
#31,794
Weezer said:
If it helps her party, it helps her. Directly, indirectly, it's still personal gain.
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No, it's not... because you can't say for certain, that it would in fact, help the Democrats. The fact is, we don't know how the testimony of the witnesses she wants to see called - Mick Mulvaney, Mike Pompeo and John Bolton - would go. It might help the Democrats, or it might not.
 
#31,795
#31,795
BowlBrother85 said:
That is not accurate, because the Republican Party doesn't have a "need" for the Articles of Impeachment. In fact, the Senate Republicans would much rather NEVER receive them. You are drawing a false equivalency. The Ukraine is at war with Russia, who has acted as an aggressor nation against them. The Ukraine did have a very clear "need" for the $391 million in military aid that Trump withheld from them from the middle of July until September 11th - all for the purpose of using that military aid as leverage against President Zelensky's willingness to announce an investigation into the Bidens on CNN in September, and in doing so, advance Trump's chances of winning re-election next November.
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No he’s not. Why should they be able to hold onto the charges indefinitely? Either charge him and finish the process or dismiss them. The longer they hold them the longer they prove what a sham this was but regardless they shouldn’t be able to hold them as long as they want just because they know what the result will be.
 
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#31,796
#31,796
luthervol said:
And if it helps America it helps her because she's an American.
And if it helps humanity it helps her because she is human.

It's obvious that Trump's QPQ was for personal gain and Pelosi's is not. That's honestly not even a debatable point.
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So, if Trump wanting Biden investigated helps America.....

You're carrying Nancy's water. And her behavior is very debatable.
 
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#31,798
#31,798
BowlBrother85 said:
No, it's not... because you can't so for certain, that it would in fact, help the Democrats. The fact is, we don't know how the testimony of the witnesses she wants to see called - Mick Mulvaney, Mike Pompeo and John Bolton - would go. It might help the Democrats, or it might not.
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Who cares? They have no say.
 
#31,799
#31,799
C-south said:
No he’s not. Why should they be able to hold onto the charges indefinitely? Either charge him and finish the process or dismiss them. The longer they hold them the longer they prove what a sham this was but regardless they shouldn’t be able to hold them as long as they want just because they know what the result will be.
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The Republicans don't have a "need" for those Articles of Impeachment, though. Like I said, they would much rather NEVER receive them. It's not extortion, as he claimed.
 
#31,800
#31,800
Weezer said:
She's attempting to extort the U.S. Senate to get her way, hoping for a favorable outcome. Does that sound on the up and up to you? If a Pub was doing this, you'd be outraged. So yeah, I'm serious.
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It sounds much more on the up and up than McConnell publicly stating that Trump will never be found guilty in the Senate, that he is not impartial in any way, and that they would not even have a trial.

It's wrong to knowingly run another car off the road, but if that other car is fleeing the police and has a couple of kidnapped children in the back seat, it suddenly becomes not such a bad thing.

A small wrong to prevent a much bigger wrong is really not wrong at all.
 
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