The Foreign Trade Thread

#376
#376
1972 Grad said:
I was saying an additional $6.00 for all your toys, not for each one. How am I privileged? Is it because I took some chances, signed my name on the dotted line, and worked as many as 100 hours a week for a 2 month period every year? Or, because a normal week found me at work for about 60-65 hours for 50 weeks a year with 2 weeks vacation? For many years, no vacation. Walk the walk, then you can talk the talk from behind your desk at home.

For what it's worth, I donate every year to help underprivileged kids and adults. I don't have enough to spare to pay off all layaways though.
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This doesn't offset the damage you do by defending these market interventions. You could help people a whole lot more by supporting smart government, and you wouldn't even have to give them $.

Privileged doesn't mean you didn't work. There are plenty of single Moms who work as hard as you claim to have worked. There isn't some machine that precisely spits out rewards based on effort.

$6.00 for all the toys I buy for nieces and nephews and my own kid? Now the problem is you've grossly underestimated the cost of protectionism.
 
#377
#377
n_huffhines said:
This doesn't offset the damage you do by defending these market interventions. You could help people a whole lot more by supporting smart government, and you wouldn't even have to give them $.

Privileged doesn't mean you didn't work. There are plenty of single Moms who work as hard as you claim to have worked. There isn't some machine that precisely spits out rewards based on effort.

$6.00 for all the toys I buy for nieces and nephews and my own kid? Now the problem is you've grossly underestimated the cost of protectionism.
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It appears that I underestimated your vast toy budget. For that, I am deeply sorry.

P.S. Maybe the single mom made decisions that were not in her best financial interest.
 
#378
#378
1972 Grad said:
It appears that I underestimated your vast toy budget. For that, I am deeply sorry.

P.S. Maybe the single mom made decisions that were not in her best financial interest.
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Or maybe she did everything right and her husband died. The point remains that in all cases, the rewards you receive are not perfect reflections of inputs, and privilege is not mutually exclusive with hard work.
 
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#379
#379
n_huffhines said:
Or maybe she did everything right and her husband died. The point remains that in all cases, the rewards you receive are not perfect reflections of inputs, and privilege is not mutually exclusive with hard work.
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Maybe the "dead husband" made a poor choice when it came to life insurance. 2 can play this game.
 
#381
#381
Protectionism impacts more than just toy buyers. Unpredictable protectionism is even worse.
 
#382
#382
n_huffhines said:
We are currency manipulators. We don't cheat and steal? Ever heard of Monsanto? China is stealing IP, but do you think China is doing anything worse than claiming IP they didn't invent is theirs? Monsanto is forcing farmers to pay them to use processes they've been using for centuries. We leverage our relationships to force places like Iraq and India to observe these completely bogus IP laws. People literally starve because food has become unaffordable to some. China is a bully. We're a bully. Neither of us has moral high ground. Stop making me pay higher consumer prices and taxes to punish China for **** we do too. It's economically stupid and we're going to suffer while Trump and his buddies are just fine
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China doesn't just steal IP. They steal technology as well. I saw it reported that they steal an estimated half trillion worth of products. We'd have a surplus if that's correct and they'd have to pay for it.

Monsanto isn't the US government. If they have rights to processes then they get to charge for them. The farmers are a huge collective force. If Monsanto was doing anything illegal they'd lose in court against the better funded cooperating farming force.
 
#383
#383
Thunder Good-Oil said:
China doesn't just steal IP. They steal technology as well. I saw it reported that they steal an estimated half trillion worth of products. We'd have a surplus if that's correct and they'd have to pay for it.

Monsanto isn't the US government. If they have rights to processes then they get to charge for them. The farmers are a huge collective force. If Monsanto was doing anything illegal they'd lose in court against the better funded cooperating farming force.
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Technology is IP.

What are you talking about they steal products? Like they're literally pirates stealing other people's property? You're saying this is the Chinese government doing it, not businesses. And you're saying our government, who twists international arms to follow these bogus IP laws, is not culpable?

Say I come to you and tell you you can't continue to use your land the way your family has been for 200 years, unless you pay me for seed. I was awarded a patent on the process you were already using....you're saying that's cool?

You think you can win this trade war by turning it into a crusade. You can paint the Chinese out to be evil, but believe me, they're doing the same thing, and they have plenty of evidence of corruption to go off. They'll likely be more successful in turning this into a crusade than we will be.
 
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#384
#384
n_huffhines said:
Technology is IP.

What are you talking about they steal products? Like they're literally pirates stealing other people's property? You're saying this is the Chinese government doing it, not businesses. And you're saying our government, who twists international arms to follow these bogus IP laws, is not culpable?

Say I come to you and tell you you can't continue to use your land the way your family has been for 200 years, unless you pay me for seed. I was awarded a patent on the process you were already using....you're saying that's cool?

You think you can win this trade war by turning it into a crusade. You can paint the Chinese out to be evil, but believe me, they're doing the same thing, and they have plenty of evidence of corruption to go off. They'll likely be more successful in turning this into a crusade than we will be.
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China doesn't respect the laws. They don't enforce violations.

Most farms aren't 200 year family legacies. They're massive factories. Monsanto is going after theft. Family businesses aren't exempt from the laws because great grand pappy wasn't caught. He might have made moonshine as well. That doesn't grand father in the future generations to make corn squeezings.

Yes. China will lose. The partisan bickering just drags the final result out further. Might even take decades if the US goes back to a kowtowing POTUS like the last one.

We aren't obligated to be the world's charity to make sure toys are $6 cheaper. Our Bretton Woods strategy should have changed about 3 decades ago. I'm glad that Trump is pissing off our allies by expecting something else in exchange for access to our consumer. Fair trade is a reasonable expectation.
 
#385
#385
Thunder Good-Oil said:
China doesn't respect the laws. They don't enforce violations.

Most farms aren't 200 year family legacies. They're massive factories. Monsanto is going after theft. Family businesses aren't exempt from the laws because great grand pappy wasn't caught. He might have made moonshine as well. That doesn't grand father in the future generations to make corn squeezings.

Yes. China will lose. The partisan bickering just drags the final result out further. Might even take decades if the US goes back to a kowtowing POTUS like the last one.

We aren't obligated to be the world's charity to make sure toys are $6 cheaper. Our Bretton Woods strategy should have changed about 3 decades ago. I'm glad that Trump is pissing off our allies by expecting something else in exchange for access to our consumer. Fair trade is a reasonable expectation.
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Your idea of what constitutes charity throws everything you say into question. The US government's obligation is to the people, and taxing the people with tariffs because you want to play politics and pretend like you're fixing stuff, while disrupting the entire economy, is not a winning idea. We have a few possible outcomes:

1) We totally win the trade war, and our central planners miraculously design deals that are in fact better for us.
2) We win the trade war, and the government screws up writing the policies (unintended consequences) and we aren't any better off.
3) We win the trade war, and the government screws up writing the policies (unintended consequences) and we are worse off.
4) Stalemate.
5) We lose the trade war, and we end up with less negotiating power.

You really must believe in government if you think the likely scenario is we end up better off. Foxconn is Trump's deal. Just take a look at that deal and tell me you're confident this dude knows what he's doing.
 
#386
#386
The only trade war is with China. They're the ones that are blatantly cheating. We will win that one... China has far more to lose and doesn't have leverage. If the left could pull in the same direction, it will be quickly resolved. They don't want that. They want chaos so they can cling to power.

There isn't a trade war with the allies. Those are simple negotiations. They have to give the US something for access to the consumer markets. Like getting rid of their barriers if they expect unlimited free access.

The charity has been security.
 
#389
#389
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The only trade war is with China. They're the ones that are blatantly cheating. We will win that one... China has far more to lose and doesn't have leverage. If the left could pull in the same direction, it will be quickly resolved. They don't want that. They want chaos so they can cling to power.

There isn't a trade war with the allies. Those are simple negotiations. They have to give the US something for access to the consumer markets. Like getting rid of their barriers if they expect unlimited free access.

The charity has been security.
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It's pure speculation on your part that we hold all the cards. The idea that it will be easy to win requires a myopic view of trade. Trump pulled that one out of his ass.

Weird that you didn't comment about Foxconn, or the likelihood that our central planners actually establish a good deal.
 
#390
#390
n_huffhines said:
Does this make you feel better or worse about our chances of arriving at a good deal for the US?
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Indifferent, both sides seem to be pushing a rope regardless atm. Was a news blip that Chinese have agreed to put up for a vote on reducing US car tariffs from 40 to 15 percent. We shall see...

The only similar action I can think of is the gov prohibiting Chinese phones due to security risks. That’s valid. Here companies are literally going to punish people for using Apple and the gov is talking subsidies to “buy Chinese”.

Ridiculous.
 
#398
#398
n_huffhines said:
It's pure speculation on your part that we hold all the cards. The idea that it will be easy to win requires a myopic view of trade. Trump pulled that one out of his ass.

Weird that you didn't comment about Foxconn, or the likelihood that our central planners actually establish a good deal.
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Foxconn makes sense. Not only creating jobs. It could stimulate a shift of tech being overly concentrated in California. It can't hurt to establish a footprint here for tech manufacturing instead of contracting so much in Asia. America can be totally self sustaining... but the infrastructure for tech mfg needs to be built up. Much like America's dependence on oil for decades has been reversed.

Moving toward a more equalized trade relationship with China in itself is a win for our central planners. It's one thing to have a deficit at all. It's an entirely different issue when there's a 3x or 4x to 1 imbalance. Add to that ending their thieving ways and it's even better.

China will concede. They're seeing that Trump isn't going to blink... even with the crazy left's nonsense of resisting from within. Good thing the left hasn't been able to overly obstruct shale production.
 
#399
#399
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Foxconn makes sense. Not only creating jobs. It could stimulate a shift of tech being overly concentrated in California. It can't hurt to establish a footprint here for tech manufacturing instead of contracting so much in Asia. America can be totally self sustaining... but the infrastructure for tech mfg needs to be built up. Much like America's dependence on oil for decades has been reversed.

Moving toward a more equalized trade relationship with China in itself is a win for our central planners. It's one thing to have a deficit at all. It's an entirely different issue when there's a 3x or 4x to 1 imbalance. Add to that ending their thieving ways and it's even better.

China will concede. They're seeing that Trump isn't going to blink... even with the crazy left's nonsense of resisting from within. Good thing the left hasn't been able to overly obstruct shale production.
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You either have no idea what you're talking about or you have no cred. Read up on how much the government is giving Foxconn per job, and now factor in we have to bring immigrants in to fill these jobs. Trump and Wisconsin got pwned

#132 Negative Mount Pleasant by Reply All

Trade imbalances are not bad. It means we are wealthier than them. Want to end the imbalance? Make us poorer. It's that simple
 
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