The divide in this country is growing, and is alarming

#126
#126
therealUT said:
There is much greater merit to the notion that these parents look at test scores and college admissions.
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I didn't place a scale on the considerations, either. Generally speaking, yes, what you say is true.
 
#127
#127
utvolpj said:
I would imagine many private schools offer scholarships to qualified students. I know of at least one that did for me and my sister
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There are more than a handful of Catholic Schools that offer free admission the the children of any parishoners who tithe regularly. 'Ve known kids whose parents make less than $40k, combined, and send their three children to solid Catholic Schools for less than $4K/year (for all three kids). Seeing as Christians are supposed to tithe 10% anyway, this appears to be an incredible deal.
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#128
#128
VolsNSkinsFan said:
b/c if I make $1 Million a year in my business and say I get a $100K tax break, I am going to use that $100K to hire someone, give them a machine to work on and next year I will make $1.2 Million.
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Except that if there is no additional demand for that product you will then lay off the machine operator and have an idle machine. Capitalism is based on supply/demand and the main impediment to job growth now is that supply is equal to or exceeds demand.

Look at corporate earnings. They are doing just fine at current sales levels with fewer employees. Tax breaks will not increase demand and therefore will not help employment at this time. Create new products that create new demand and that picture changes very quickly.
 
#129
#129
therealUT said:
There are more than a handful of Catholic Schools that offer free admission the the children of any parishoners who tithe regularly. 'Ve known kids whose parents make less than $40k, combined, and send their three children to solid Catholic Schools for less than $4K/year (for all three kids). Seeing as Christians are supposed to tithe 10% anyway, this appears to be an incredible deal.
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my catholic school was at least 25% scholorships, but we have a massive endowment.
 
#130
#130
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Yea maybe like 1% of parents, while the rest just realize how important an education really is and are willing to pay so that their kid gets a leg up on the competition (Aka getting their kid into a good college)
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I disagree that saying education is the pure motivation to sending a kid to private school. I think culture of the school has a LOT more to do with it. Not a majority of the reasoning, but it's a legitimate factor. I don't want to place a number on it because it is different for everyone, but culture of the school is definitely a real component when parents consider whether or not to send their kids to private school. Like I said, there are multiple factors in play.

There are a lot of parents that send their kids to private school when the public school is perfectly fine.

I disagree, but it's ok. It's my opinion only, and I've certainly been wrong a lot in my lifetime. We can have a reasonable discussion without hate-mongering (not saying you specifically were).
 
#131
#131
nbakerld said:
Yeah, but we pay less for kids that go from public to private. In Utah the proposed plan was to take about $3K of the $7K/per student spending and send it to the private school with the kid. The public school is left with a $4k surplus, part of which stays with the school and the other part goes back into the state budget.

Like I said, everybody wins.
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the question is what % of people with switch if it's only paying part of the tuition. look i agree with the whole premise, but unfortunetely to be economicially viable (at least in los angeles) you'd have to have an income phase out.
 
#132
#132
lawgator1 said:
I don't think anyone created the bubble out of racist points of view. And I don't think that accumulating wealth has a racist purpose.

But,

1) The reality is that white households benefited from their ownership of stocks and corporate interests flowing from the financial markets, while black and Hispanic households largely benefited from the direct ownership of homes. When the housing market tanked, both got hurt. But the homeowners got hurt more. (See the Pew Research page for a discussion of this.)

2) Regardless of the lack of racial motivation in the accumulation of wealth in the first instance, there is most definitely an appeal to racial stereotypes and categorizing when it comes to taxation and spending. The characterization of the problem as being that black people don't work hard enough and don't pay taxes, versus being that the raw opportunity for black participation in corporate or business participation is too low, well, that's where the debate should be imo.
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See Clinton and Reno threatening federal action if mortgage companies didn't stop practicing "red-lining".
 
#133
#133
KentheOrange said:
Except that if there is no additional demand for that product you will then lay off the machine operator and have an idle machine. Capitalism is based on supply/demand and the main impediment to job growth now is that supply is equal to or exceeds demand.

Look at corporate earnings. They are doing just fine at current sales levels with fewer employees. Tax breaks will not increase demand and therefore will not help employment at this time. Create new products that create new demand and that picture changes very quickly.
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What are you talking about? If there is no demand for the product then he makes a product that people want.

Say the guy's product is a golf bag. He demands the machine to make the bag, to make the machine requires labor, the laborer requires food from the grocer and housing from the builder, the grocer and builder want golf bags.

You are assuming they wouldn't do more than "just fine" by investing more in their company. This is not a valid assumption.
 
#134
#134
I don't care if I get branded a rascist but entitlements and the welfare program are almost as bad as the slavery that existed hundreds of years ago. It has been proven time and again not to work. I know many successful black people who worked their arse off to get where they are today. Several of them hate programs like affirmative action because they feel it waters down and takes away from the success they have achieved. You can throw all the money you want down the welfare hole, but it has been proven not to fix anything. I agree there is a growing divide in America economically but doesn't that make sense? How many times have you gone to a gym and seen a bodybuilder and blamed him for your overweight friend who eats pizza everyday and never moves? I know that's not a perfect analogy but still. My family was not affluent, I went to a po dunk country public high school. But im not blaming everyone else. Get over it.
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#135
#135
HSVol said:
I disagree that saying education is the pure motivation to sending a kid to private school. I think culture of the school has a LOT more to do with it. Not a majority of the reasoning, but it's a legitimate factor. I don't want to place a number on it because it is different for everyone, but culture of the school is definitely a real component when parents consider whether or not to send their kids to private school.

There are a lot of parents that send their kids to private school when the public school is perfectly fine.

I disagree, but it's ok. It's my opinion only, and I've certainly been wrong a lot in my lifetime. We can have a reasonable discussion without hate-mongering.
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There may be parents who do what you say, and I would argue that Catholic parents are more likely to send their kids to Catholic Schools regardless of the public schools in the area; however, my parents sent my older sister to public school because that school was very strong at the time, especially in helping students who struggled in math and science. My brother and I went to a Catholic high school that was very strong in liberal arts and sports. My younger sister (12 years younger), is at a diferent Catholic high school (same city) that has excelled over the past decade.

Most of the parents I grew up around could recite the test scores for all the Catholic high schools and the highest performing public schools in the metro area.
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#137
#137
droski said:
the question is what % of people with switch if it's only paying part of the tuition. look i agree with the whole premise, but unfortunetely to be economicially viable (at least in los angeles) you'd have to have an income phase out.
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I'm not sure what you mean by an income phase out, I think you mean voucher amount is based on an income scale. That's how it works. The richest get capped at $500, and the poorest get capped at $3000 (in LA these numbers would probably be more like $500 and $6000).

You are assuming it's only paying part of the tuition. Utah's plan gives you $3K to take to a private school. My cousin had his kids in a private school where they paid $2K so they were more than covered if the vouchers passed.

Also you are looking at the world as is, not how it would be. With vouchers it would create all kinds of demand for inexpensive private education, so guess what will happen? New suppliers will enter the market place.
 
#138
#138
gotcha. sounds like a good plan to me. K-8 catholic schools in LA around around 6k a year. high schools around 10K a year. regular private schools can easily be in the $20k range.
 
#139
#139
HSVol said:
There is a lot of merit to the notion that white parents are flocking to private schools out of demographic considerations, whether we want to admit it or not. It's not specifically to get away from "black people" or "minorities", it's to get kids into safer schools where there are fewer gangs and less of a threat to the child's safety. Obviously, the allure of a private education is also a consideration.
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Hmph! Every friend of mine who has gone to a private school has said they were send to receive a higher-quality education and also simply because they had the money to do so. Never have I heard that it was because their parents considered public school unsafe. Maybe this is a trend that has risen recently. And, to note, this problem of "gangs" seems, to me, to be mostly exclusive to the inner-city schools in the U.S. Certainly not common in smaller schools, nor in Europe.
 
#140
#140
All politics is local. I am sure you can find individual charter schools, or even groups of charter schools, that have large outreach programs for minority students.

But, studies show that overall charter schools in areas that are racially diverse tend to attract far more white students, well out of proportion to the community at large. Add this to the parochial or private institutions, and it should not come as a surprise that parents, in their private conversations, are having to admit to themselves that they think public schools are poor performing and dangerous.

And deeper down that is attributed to the presence of the poor and the minorities. You can call it gangs if you want, or you can just say its performance based. But all of that comes back to the perception that public education sucks BECAUSE of the presence of blacks and Hispanics such that the solution is to take your kid out of that environment.
 
#141
#141
lawgator1 said:
All politics is local. I am sure you can find individual charter schools, or even groups of charter schools, that have large outreach programs for minority students.

But, studies show that overall charter schools in areas that are racially diverse tend to attract far more white students, well out of proportion to the community at large. Add this to the parochial or private institutions, and it should not come as a surprise that parents, in their private conversations, are having to admit to themselves that they think public schools are poor performing and dangerous.

And deeper down that is attributed to the presence of the poor and the minorities. You can call it gangs if you want, or you can just say its performance based. But all of that comes back to the perception that public education sucks BECAUSE of the presence of blacks and Hispanics such that the solution is to take your kid out of that environment.
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This is asinine.
 
#142
#142
lawgator1 said:
But all of that comes back to the perception that public education sucks BECAUSE of the presence of blacks and Hispanics such that the solution is to take your kid out of that environment.
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bull****. no one thinks it sucks because of the blacks. maybe because of the hispanics because the teacher is spending time teaching them english, but that is entirely a different situation. that btw is why i went from public to private school. imagine trying to teach me whe 30% of the class barely speaks english.
 
#145
#145
nbakerld said:
What are you talking about? If there is no demand for the product then he makes a product that people want.

Say the guy's product is a golf bag. He demands the machine to make the bag, to make the machine requires labor, the laborer requires food from the grocer and housing from the builder, the grocer and builder want golf bags.

You are assuming they wouldn't do more than "just fine" by investing more in their company. This is not a valid assumption.
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If he is selling all the golf bags that he makes now with no back log, why would he invest in more machinery or labor. I think it's a valid assumption that you need to read my statement more carefully.
 
#146
#146
lawgator1 said:
All politics is local. I am sure you can find individual charter schools, or even groups of charter schools, that have large outreach programs for minority students.

But, studies show that overall charter schools in areas that are racially diverse tend to attract far more white students, well out of proportion to the community at large. Add this to the parochial or private institutions, and it should not come as a surprise that parents, in their private conversations, are having to admit to themselves that they think public schools are poor performing and dangerous.

And deeper down that is attributed to the presence of the poor and the minorities. You can call it gangs if you want, or you can just say its performance based. But all of that comes back to the perception that public education sucks BECAUSE of the presence of blacks and Hispanics such that the solution is to take your kid out of that environment.
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Yea, has nothing to do with the fact that the private schools provide a superior education.

Memphis city public education sucks. That's undeniable. The circus going on here proves it. Why would any parent want their child to be a part of public schools that are poorly run and provide a lousy education?
 
#147
#147
nah they aren't worse. that's only a perception deeble. my kids would be just as well off in LA unified. if i wasn't a racist i would see this clearly.
 
#148
#148
TheDeeble said:
Yea, has nothing to do with the fact that the private schools provide a superior education.

Memphis city public education sucks. That's undeniable. The circus going on here proves it. Why would any parent want their child to be a part of public schools that are poorly run and provide a lousy education?
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Of course they don't. But why are they lousy?
 
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