The divide in this country is growing, and is alarming

#101
#101
the reason public schools suck is because the parents suck and don't give a crap. plenty of private schools have a similar (and in some cases) smaller budget than public schools and provide a quality education.
 
#102
#102
HSVol said:
I also said that "fixing" would be a good start. Obviously, there's much, much more to it. It's very complex problem that will require a lot of work, but to dismiss increased education funding out of hand is supremely foolish.
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No, it's not. The solution is competition. Public schools have a monopoly on education and they have no incentive to improve unless they stand to lose students and funding. Vouchers will keep the same amount of $ in education, while allowing poor students the privilege to attend private school, and providing competition to the market place thus improving public schools.

It's a really, really, really easy solution, but it's not politically popular because too many people make money in public education.
 
#103
#103
HSVol said:
I also said that "fixing" would be a good start. Obviously, there's much, much more to it. It's very complex problem that will require a lot of work, but to dismiss increased education funding out of hand is supremely foolish.
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how much more do we need to spend? Seems other countries get better results with less spending but I guess that won't work in the US?

the system needs to be revamped and not just have money thrown at it
 
#104
#104
droski said:
the reason public schools suck is because the parents suck and don't give a crap. plenty of private schools have a similar (and in some cases) smaller budget than public schools and provide a quality education.
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Private schools have had great success with some of public schools biggest rejects. Even when the parents didn't care.
 
#106
#106
droski said:
yes it's to get away from the minorities. not to provide a better education for their child.
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There is a lot of merit to the notion that white parents are flocking to private schools out of demographic considerations, whether we want to admit it or not. It's not specifically to get away from "black people" or "minorities", it's to get kids into safer schools where there are fewer gangs and less of a threat to the child's safety. Obviously, the allure of a private education is also a consideration.

It doesn't have to be one or the other, folks. We're talking about complex decisions with multiple variables at work. Not just black/white, rich/poor, good education/bad education. Lots of factors involved.
 
#107
#107
nbakerld said:
No, it's not. The solution is competition. Public schools have a monopoly on education and they have no incentive to improve unless they stand to lose students and funding. Vouchers will keep the same amount of $ in education, while allowing poor students the privilege to attend private school, and providing competition to the market place thus improving public schools.

It's a really, really, really easy solution, but it's not politically popular because too many people make money in public education.
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what about those who would have sent their kids to private school anyway? i believe in vouchers, but it seems like a revenue drain. and of course the lazy parents wont use them anyway and those are the people we need to help.
 
#108
#108
HSVol said:
There is a lot of merit to the notion that white parents are flocking to private schools out of demographic considerations, whether we want to admit it or not. It's not specifically to get away from "black people" or "minorities", it's to get kids into safer schools where there are fewer gangs and less of a threat to the child's safety. Obviously, the allure of a private education is also a consideration.

It doesn't have to be one or the other, folks. We're talking about complex decisions with multiple variables at work. Not just black/white, rich/poor, good education/bad education. Lots of factors involved.
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many parents don't want their kid to go to an all white school rich school. my parents certainly didn't. great way to make sure your kid has no perspective.
 
#110
#110
droski said:
many parents don't want their kid to go to an all white school rich school. my parents certainly didn't. great way to make sure your kid has no perspective.
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I didn't say anything about you. I said there is merit to the notion that some parents do use demographics as a consideration.

This is an undeniable fact. Doesn't mean it's the same for everyone.
 
#111
#111
droski said:
what about those who would have sent their kids to private school anyway? i believe in vouchers, but it seems like a revenue drain. and of course the lazy parents wont use them anyway and those are the people we need to help.
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I don't even know what you mean since I don't know how it could possibly be a revenue drain.

Vouchers will improve public schools (because otherwise they will lose students and the funding that goes with those students; they finally have a real incentive to do well) and thus, kids with parents who don't care will get better education as well.

Everybody wins, except for the teacher's union.
 
#112
#112
HSVol said:
I didn't say anything about you. I said there is merit to the notion that some parents do use demographics as a consideration.

This is an undeniable fact. Doesn't mean it's the same for everyone.
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so is that the fault of those choosing to switch or the ones forcing their hand? You mentioned the apathy yourself. I don't want my kid going to a school full of people that might inhibit his ability to get the best education
 
#113
#113
HSVol said:
There is a lot of merit to the notion that white parents are flocking to private schools out of demographic considerations, whether we want to admit it or not. It's not specifically to get away from "black people" or "minorities", it's to get kids into safer schools where there are fewer gangs and less of a threat to the child's safety. Obviously, the allure of a private education is also a consideration.

It doesn't have to be one or the other, folks. We're talking about complex decisions with multiple variables at work. Not just black/white, rich/poor, good education/bad education. Lots of factors involved.
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Come to KCMO and I will show you plenty of all-AA and all-Hispanic/Latino private/parochial schools that excel. Dismissing private schools as some exclusive, all-white bastion shows plenty of ignorance.
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#114
#114
utvolpj said:
so is that the fault of those choosing to switch or the ones forcing their hand? You mentioned the apathy yourself. I don't want my kid going to a school full of people that might inhibit his ability to get the best education
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The biggest obstacle to improving our public schools is apathy either by the parents, child or both. There are many factors at play here and it isn't always apathy but it is by far the biggest factor IMO.
 
#115
#115
nbakerld said:
I don't even know what you mean since I don't know how it could possibly be a revenue drain.

Vouchers will improve public schools (because otherwise they will lose students and the funding that goes with those students; they finally have a real incentive to do well) and thus, kids with parents who don't care will get better education as well.

Everybody wins, except for the teacher's union.
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because we are now paying for students who we did not pay for before i.e. students that would have gone to private school anyway.
 
#116
#116
utvolpj said:
so is that the fault of those choosing to switch or the ones forcing their hand? You mentioned the apathy yourself. I don't want my kid going to a school full of people that might inhibit his ability to get the best education
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Fault? I'm not sure what you mean. I'm not blaming anyone for sending their children to private schools. If that's what they feel is best for them and they can afford it, good for them.

I am in favor of private schools. I think there is a place for public and private education. Private schools could be vehicles for innovative education moving forward because there are fewer barriers to outside-the-box thinking like there is with the public institution.
 
#117
#117
therealUT said:
Come to KCMO and I will show you plenty of all-AA and all-Hispanic/Latino private/parochial schools that excel. Dismissing private schools as some exclusive, all-white bastion shows plenty of ignorance.
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Of course it's ignorant, but it undermines the racist angle in beating down those who point out that our public school system is a disgrace, though funded like a freaking hospital.
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#118
#118
HSVol said:
I didn't say anything about you. I said there is merit to the notion that some parents do use demographics as a consideration.

This is an undeniable fact. Doesn't mean it's the same for everyone.
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There is much greater merit to the notion that these parents look at test scores and college admissions.
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#120
#120
HSVol said:
I didn't say anything about you. I said there is merit to the notion that some parents do use demographics as a consideration.

This is an undeniable fact. Doesn't mean it's the same for everyone.
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Yea maybe like 1% of parents, while the rest just realize how important an education really is and are willing to pay so that their kid gets a leg up on the competition (Aka getting their kid into a good college)
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#121
#121
droski said:
because we are now paying for students who we did not pay for before i.e. students that would have gone to private school anyway.
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Yeah, but we pay less for kids that go from public to private. In Utah the proposed plan was to take about $3K of the $7K/per student spending and send it to the private school with the kid. The public school is left with a $4k surplus, part of which stays with the school and the other part goes back into the state budget.

Like I said, everybody wins.
 
#123
#123
HSVol said:
Negative, not the only thing. There are many components. A lot of it is cultural, a lot of it is institutional. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.
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Rampant government spending isn't cultural. It's an offshoot of the career politician era and is pure votebuying via tax dollar. The tax loophole issue is exactly the same thing.

The tax break for the wealthy is an issue of legitimate economic merit.
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#124
#124
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Yea maybe like 1% of parents, while the rest just realize how important an education really is and are willing to pay so that their kid gets a leg up on the competition (Aka getting their kid into a good college)
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I would imagine many private schools offer scholarships to qualified students. I know of at least one that did for me and my sister
 
#125
#125
This data confirms that the right wing hate machine at Fox and the likes of Beck, Limbaugh, Coulter, and Hannity, have successfully convinced white Americans that blacks and Hispanics are lazy and are trying to live off the productivity of whites. Anyone who does not think that a race conflict is on the horizon is deluding themselves.

I'm white. I do pretty well. I also don't read or listen to any of the names you listed and haven't been convinced anything about what you mentioned above.

Your post is full of generalizations, in other words, racist.
 
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