Show me all these high character successful football coaches... only difference between Freeze is he got caught, the rest is just ignorance if you don't think other coaches are doing the same stuff. Go work 100+hrs a week and always be away from you wife and family in a cut throat field and see if you don't start doing some things you didn't think you would
The Blueprint
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Show me all these high character successful football coaches... only difference between Freeze is he got caught, the rest is just ignorance if you don't think other coaches are doing the same stuff. Go work 100+hrs a week and always be away from you wife and family in a cut throat field and see if you don't start doing some things you didn't think you would
lifeisdeep
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lifeisdeep
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Is this a football program or a monastery? "Demanding character" - asinine. Unless the people "demanding character" are without sin they're just being self-righteous jackasses looking for a way to be contrary and not hire the best candidate.
Sometimes it seems like our money boosters have Jerry Jones disease - they want to do it their way so badly that they intentionally avoid common sense at all costs and do the stupidest possible thing over and over again, always insisting on not hiring a proven coach, so they can say they didn't let anyone tell them what to do.
I wish they'd all take a one-way space shuttle and let someone who actually gives a damn about the players and fans pilot this program for a while.
ABINGDON VOL FAN
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GUNTERSVOL
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lifeisdeep
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The crux of your argument is that the money guys can do whatever they want because they have the money. I wonder if you have any remote clue how pathetic, facile, and repulsive that is? It's also as short-sighted and obtuse as a human being can ever possibly be, because if they consider this football program an investment, continuing to run it like they are right now will eventually lead to losing their asses on said investment.
I think the Jerry Jones reference is spot on (and i live down here in the middle of his mess and witness it firsthand). Jerry only wants to win if he gets the credit. And I think that is what we have at UT. The power brokers only want to win if it is “their guy.” And they can’t get on the same page to agree on who “that guy” should be.
And then, when we hire a coach, the faction that doesn’t support him can’t wait to tear him down.
It’s why Mal Moore got it right. He went in and basically said “we’re tired of losing” and “here is a big fish” who can fix it.
The power brokers at Tennessee have to get tired of losing before anything can be fixed. For the life of me, I cannot understand how anyone didn’t reach that point about halfway through Dooley!
GUNTERSVOL
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Yes they DO get to set parameters on how they are willing to spend their money just like many of your like minded got to pull the trigger now guys that preach withholding spending a dime if Pruitt is not fired immediately. It is possible that these guys might be better informed on the current coach market, the status of our war chest, the cost to pay off current staff, payoff new staffs buyouts, and new staffs salary requirements, It could be that they have determined there are guys out there, but since we cannot commit our total war chest on football since we still have bring all programs through the COVID deal, that best case is to enter next year with current guy, get some post COVID revenue, decrease buyouts, maybe for both current and new staffs and barring a miracle turnaround start the process mid season next year. They might just refuse to invest in an immediate improvement that does not project to be a final solution. Unlike the Jerry Jones analogy, all of the money will not come out of a single pocket. Unlike the Jones analogy, they don't get a return on investment. It appears the single pocket plan did work out at AU and they had to go on the cheap since they already pulled the trigger. Not a great plan. Glad we avoided that trap. It is of course possible that it might work out down there. Just don't like the odds. I have wondered if the guys that we approached for Kiffin,, Dooley, Jones and Pruitt told CPF they are tired of the frequency of change and he must have a plan with higher floor than we have experienced since CPF. I know i am tired of these cycles.
GUNTERSVOL
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I’m not putting it all on Phil. In fact, I think the high profile boosters are the big problem...and that is why we’ve now had three different ADs make four HC hires with essentially the same result.
Those boosters need to get tired of losing and get on the same page so we can pay and support a high level candidate.
As for me, the first group probably isn’t attainable, but I’d have the money in hand and at least ask Bob Stoops and Chris Peterson. Almost certainly two nos, but I’d ask.
Then I would pursue Matt Campbell then Hugh Freeze in that order.
And this is why you need booster buy-in. You have to have a significant package put together to even pursue those first three. And you better not show up with peanuts if you get to Freeze.
If it got beyond Freeze, I’d resign because I failed.
lifeisdeep
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Freeze beat Saban the last two times he played him. I realize equivocators such as yourself can rationalize away anything, just as you can pretend that there are dozens of coaches out there who could take a team to the top 25 in its third year in D-I, with no recruits ranked higher than three stars and mostly zero-stars.
But there aren't many coaches who could take Liberty to the top-25 in three years, just as there aren't any other coaches available who beat Saban the last two times they played him - for that matter there probably aren't any coaches, period, who have beaten him twice in a row outside of Freeze.
You can rationalize it away until the cows come home, but the cold hard fact is that Freeze is light-years more proven than any other coach that is coaching now and that we could get, and power boosters choosing to stay with a proven loser rather than doing what it takes to get the best coach we have had a shot at in thirteen years is inexcusable. They can claim all they want that they care about the program, but their actions don't show it. If I had that kind of money I absolutely would not hesitate to spend 1/500th of it - far, far less than they will pay this year alone in federal income tax - if I had a once-in-a-generation chance to save my alma mater's football program from the flames - and it right now is most definitely in flames, on its way to ashes. I have spent a good bit more than 1/500th of my total worth just in the last week, trying to get my tax liability down for this year. But of course guys with that amount of money don't get to write off donations to colleges - oh, wait...
They were wrong about Mullen - and if we had really tried to get him we would have gotten him. Mullen has beaten Saban exactly zero times; he has also never taken a team to a top-25 ranking within three years of when it joined D-I. UF came within a thrown shoe of the playoff this year. What will these all-knowing, wiser-than-thou boosters have to say if Texas or Michigan or Nebraska hires Freeze while we're sitting on our hands and three years from now he has that school in the playoff? Will they still be proud that they showed all us fans our place and did it their way? Will they still be proud of knowing so much more than we do about what constitutes a home-run hire when the stadium is empty and the program they supposedly love truly is finally a pile of ashes?
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GUNTERSVOL
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I cannot ever put Freeze in a category of acceptable as a candidate for a job at UT. I think the fact that AU, Van, SC have all previously passed on him is pretty telling. I have got to believe that the NCAA has shared some thoughts with any school asking questions.
You can claim you care about the program all you want but your posts don't show it. How does that dish taste coming back? We have no idea what inputs are available to the power guys. I don't think anybody is protecting our coach, nor are they oblivious to how the team has played this year. Nobody can determine how much is lack of preparation and coaching, players yielding to pressure, or how much different play will be next year with fundamentally the same cast of characters. So challenging dedication or intelligence pushes anyone's credibility.
Mainly I don't THINK the power guys have seen a candidate that has a risk/reward ratio justifying some extraordinary sourcing of funds over donations by money guys to pull off a big time hire. Vandy did not break the bank on the new guy, SC not sure I know, AU seems to have taken the bargain route. The year of the COVID is what it is.
It is that uncertainty that irritates folks like me when people wearing Orange jump or boards or radio shows en mass and impact the public perception of a coach AND PROGRAM DURING THE SEASON and especially DURING the main signing period. Putting our worst foot forward cannot be helpful and has THE POTENTIAL of impacting recruits signing. I don't know how one can justify that as a fan and then expound on player or coach performance on the field.
Mullen would take a job at UT over FL? Is that the message? I don't have a clue but head to head I would doubt it with his history there. But I certainly have nothing to offer to this discussion, OTHER than he just lost brownie points with me in the last couple of days with his VERIFIED NCAA issues. Will do a compare and contrast with Pruitt's issues once they are defined. Though once again the Nega guys explosion over one internet report the other day was pretty embarrassing, that too will come under review when info is out.
lifeisdeep
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Anyone who says Freeze is unacceptable is just a self-righteous liar. You're simply not telling the truth, and you're using a standard you yourself would never want to be held accountable to. Before you start puffing out your chest, tell me whether you have ever had a high-profile job where you made millions per year and your every move was scrutinized twenty-four hours a day? I'm guessing you haven't; I'm also guessing that at some point in your life you have done something you're not proud of, something that might not make you look all that great if 50 million people suddenly knew about it and were talking about it day after day on TV, the internet, radio, etc.
So unless you're perfect, and unless you can specifically name a coach who is currently available who has better - objectively better, as has beaten Saban or a comparable coach (Meyer will do here as a comp, i.e. if you can find a coach that has beaten him twice in a row, that passes muster) twice in a row in the last ten years and has taken a team to the top 25 within three years of joining D-I - you're basically saying that your egotistical, sanctimonious, subjective to the point of dishonesty-driven appraisal of a coach's worthiness is more important than the actual objective accomplishments of the coach.
You're part of the problem. Clearly the power boosters think like you do. Maybe you and they could take a long trip to Mars together and let someone new step in, someone who actually might put the good of the players and fans above your own self-righteous ego.
Viking Vol
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...and ask about being mediocre in the pros or being dominant in college?
Maybe ask his wife what would be best for their family?
Maybe take the next month or so to make a decision that could determine a dynasty?
Lest anyone thinks this should be in blue font, please read the following (if you haven’t already), and then weigh in:
38 Days: How Alabama Pulled off the Great Heist of Nick Saban
The tipping point? Phil Fulmer having the stones to pull a “Mal Moore” - SPOILER ALERT - and go after Spurrier and Saban!
Maybe ask his wife what would be best for their family?
Maybe take the next month or so to make a decision that could determine a dynasty?
Lest anyone thinks this should be in blue font, please read the following (if you haven’t already), and then weigh in:
38 Days: How Alabama Pulled off the Great Heist of Nick Saban
The tipping point? Phil Fulmer having the stones to pull a “Mal Moore” - SPOILER ALERT - and go after Spurrier and Saban!
CoachClick
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VOL_Lyfe
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VFL-82-JP
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I would absolutely agree with the spirit of the OP, if Jon Gruden and Nick Saban weren't such different people.
Gruden is a natural for the pros (not that he's necessarily always great at it, just that it fits him well). He has admitted many times that college football would suit him terribly. Both the recruiting, and the limitations on practice time. Jon, being an Xs and Os wonk, would want to ignore all the recruiting trips, and then would violate all the NCAA rules while spending 168 hours a week with the lads.
Saban, on the other hand, is tailor-made for college football. As his wife underscored over and over in that excellent article you linked.
In short, I don't think there's a single thing either one could teach the other. Would be like a goldfish teaching an owl how to breathe water, and the bird teaching the fish how to hunt mice. Some things are just too different from each other.
Gruden is a natural for the pros (not that he's necessarily always great at it, just that it fits him well). He has admitted many times that college football would suit him terribly. Both the recruiting, and the limitations on practice time. Jon, being an Xs and Os wonk, would want to ignore all the recruiting trips, and then would violate all the NCAA rules while spending 168 hours a week with the lads.
Saban, on the other hand, is tailor-made for college football. As his wife underscored over and over in that excellent article you linked.
In short, I don't think there's a single thing either one could teach the other. Would be like a goldfish teaching an owl how to breathe water, and the bird teaching the fish how to hunt mice. Some things are just too different from each other.
99gator
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