SUPER BOWL LVII: CHIEFS VS EAGLES, 6:30 PM (2/12/23) FOX

#476
#476
VolsSportsFan said:
That's not the issue; the issue is you see that almost literally every pass play.
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Same can be said for offensive holding... They call it when it's obvious (sometimes, lol) and from the angle the ref had, it was obvious enough apparently.

It's not obvious from the angle we're all seeing, I'll grant you that. But that's not the view the ref had.
 
#477
#477
volinbham said:
as are most SB teams.

so give it to the whole team? the trainer that taped up his ankle that allowed him to make those critical runs for first downs or escape the rush?
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The point has nothing to do with who won the SB MVP. One argument for Mahomes regular season MVP was Hurts had the better team. That's not what I saw today.

Hurts was perfect besides the weird fumble 6. He was throwing into tight windows all game. Even his incompletions weren't misses. He had almost twice as many rush yards as all his RB's combined.

The Eagles could barely touch Mahomes. His WR's were wide open. His RB's racked up yards. Besides the nice run Mahomes had, any QB in the league could've made every play that 2nd half. It was that easy for him. Never seen more open SB TD's and he had 2 of them.

I am not knocking Mahomes. He played great. Didn't mess up. And won. I'm just saying, it didn't look at all like Hurts had the better team.
 
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#478
#478
615vols said:
Why would you question a refs call? As you said, and I quote, the guy who made the call is an nfl ref. “just guessing he understands the rules better than you or I or the guy calling the game. Kinda the reason they have him there”. So when does questioning refs/analysts become acceptable and when must we defer to them knowing more?
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the person commenting during is an NFL rules analyst who was a ref. he knows the rules better than you or I. I can't believe you dispute that.

I have questioned calls for any number or reasons: 1) disagree with the rule (e.g. some targeting calls), 2) know the rule and see they got it wrong (most times the in game rules analyst ALSO agrees the call was wrong), 3) don't fully understand the rule, 4) know the rule but it went against my team so I'm hyper critical.

questioning the call as a fan is always acceptable - it just doesn't mean the fan is correct.
 
#479
#479
n_huffhines said:
The point has nothing to do with who won the SB MVP. One argument for Mahomes regular season MVP was Hurts had the better team. That's not what I saw today.

Hurts was perfect besides the weird fumble 6. He was throwing into tight windows all game. Even his incompletions weren't misses. He had almost twice as many rush yards as all his RB's combined.

The Eagles could barely touch Mahomes. His WR's were wide open. His RB's racked up yards. Besides the nice run Mahomes had, any QB on the league could've made every play Mahomes made that 2nd half. It was that easy for him. Never seen more open SB TD's and he had 2 of them.

I am not knocking Mahomes. He played great. Didn't mess up. And won. I'm just saying, it didn't look at all like Hurts had the better team.
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It might be the greatest game Andy Reid has ever called. The whole second half players were schemed wide open
 
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#480
#480
n_huffhines said:
The point has nothing to do with who won the SB MVP. One argument for Mahomes regular season MVP was Hurts had the better team. That's not what I saw today.

Hurts was perfect besides the weird fumble 6. He was throwing into tight windows all game. Even his incompletions weren't misses. He had almost twice as many rush yards as all his RB's combined.

The Eagles could barely touch Mahomes. His WR's were wide open. His RB's racked up yards. Besides the nice run Mahomes had, any QB on the league could've made every play Mahomes made that 2nd half. It was that easy for him. Never seen more open SB TD's and he had 2 of them.

I am not knocking Mahomes. He played great. Didn't mess up. And won. I'm just saying, it didn't look at all like Hurts had the better team.
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Hurts probably was the player of the game except we don't really know what he didn't do (on drives they didn't score did he not see open receivers? etc.)

But we kinda have gotten to where the spectacular is the mundane with Mahommes. His command of the offense and always making the right read - it's like Brady.
 
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#482
#482
volinbham said:
the person commenting during is an NFL rules analyst who was a ref. he knows the rules better than you or I. I can't believe you dispute that.

I have questioned calls for any number or reasons: 1) disagree with the rule (e.g. some targeting calls), 2) know the rule and see they got it wrong (most times the in game rules analyst ALSO agrees the call was wrong), 3) don't fully understand the rule, 4) know the rule but it went against my team so I'm hyper critical.

questioning the call as a fan is always acceptable - it just doesn't mean the fan is correct.
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I’m not saying I understand the rules better. You implied that the rules analyst shouldn’t be questioned because he’s there for a reason/knows more. I’m pointing out that a ref knows more/is there for a reason as well, and yet questioning them is ok to you. The analyst can have his opinion, but so can everyone else. Does it shock you a former ref defends refs? Former nfl player Greg Olsen sure disagreed with the call, I’m guessing he understands the game and rules better than most. The announcers disagreed with it, and it seems a large majority of viewers disagreed with it. And it’s because that level of tugging and contact happens all throughout games with no call. It was bad to call it there and had a huge influence on the outcome of the game.
 
#484
#484
615vols said:
I’m not saying I understand the rules better. You implied that the rules analyst shouldn’t be questioned because he’s there for a reason/knows more. I’m pointing out that a ref knows more/is there for a reason as well, and yet questioning them is ok to you. The analyst can have his opinion, but so can everyone else. Does it shock you a former ref defends refs? Former nfl player Greg Olsen sure disagreed with the call, I’m guessing he understands the game and rules better than most. The announcers disagreed with it, and it seems a large majority of viewers disagreed with it. And it’s because that level of tugging and contact happens all throughout games with no call. It was bad to call it there and had a huge influence on the outcome of the game.
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I'm not implying the rules analyst shouldn't be questioned. Never said that; never implied. Just pointing out he validated that indeed defensive holding occurred on that play. The Eagles player confirmed he intentionally held him.

Your beef seems to be the penalty that occurred shouldn't have been called because: 1) it was the end of the game and could make a big difference in the game and 2) happens virtually every play and isn't called.

On #1 my point is that you don't ignore penalties just because it is the end of the game. By all accounts defensive holding occurred on that play.

On #2 my point is that there is no evidence this occurred through out the game but was only called at the end.

As a result - I don't see it as a bad call.
 
#486
#486
n_huffhines said:
Ok. What is my bias again?

You arguing with the yardage count, that he made tough throws, or that his team isn't/wasn't awesome?
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Mahomes played a perfect second half. He didn’t have the yardage because 1) The Chiefs scored a defensive TD, B) He had 6 carries for 44 yards and C) They only ran 53 plays, and three were kneel downs

The Chiefs are a very good team. The OL played incredible. Reid is a top 10 coach ever. Kelce is a HOF. But Mahomes was fantastic today. If you could vote units for MVP, I’d vote for the OL. You can’t, so Mahomes is worthy.
 
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#487
#487
n_huffhines said:
The point has nothing to do with who won the SB MVP. One argument for Mahomes regular season MVP was Hurts had the better team. That's not what I saw today.

Hurts was perfect besides the weird fumble 6. He was throwing into tight windows all game. Even his incompletions weren't misses. He had almost twice as many rush yards as all his RB's combined.

The Eagles could barely touch Mahomes. His WR's were wide open. His RB's racked up yards. Besides the nice run Mahomes had, any QB in the league could've made every play that 2nd half. It was that easy for him. Never seen more open SB TD's and he had 2 of them.

I am not knocking Mahomes. He played great. Didn't mess up. And won. I'm just saying, it didn't look at all like Hurts had the better team.
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F6F65F0A-8AD6-438A-A803-D449DEEE2A4A.jpeg
 
#488
#488
volinbham said:
yes there is selectivity. it wasn't blatant in this case. no argument.

I've seen no examples from this game where the same level of holding wasn't called. Therefore, I don't buy the argument that you shouldn't call it at the end of the game. It matters throughout the game. If it was being ignored though out the game and just called at the end then I'd be calling BS but so far I see nothing to suggest that's the case.
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Well, while it's not proof by itself, there was only 1 defensive holding call the entire game for both teams.....the one at the end. In fact there weren't a lot of pentalties called period, 9 total. Of that 9, only 3 were judgement calls. 6 were offsides/false starts/delay of game, the other 3 were OPI/hands to the face/Defensive holding. All 3 of those were against Philly, and of those 3 I'd say only actually 2 were really judgment calls because hands to the face is pretty blatant.

So just from the stats, one could make the argument that it seemed like they were letting them play. Without being able to review the whole game with multiple angles I can't see if it truly was they were swallowing their whistle the whole game, neither team truly committed any other holding penalties, or somewhere in between (probably the right answer).

So I'll grant you it is more of a feeling than fact that it's odd they called something that wasn't completely eregious in the final minutes when it at least felt like they weren't calling ticky tack penalties the entire game. But I'll admit at the moment, I have no real video proof to back that up.
 
#489
#489
zjcvols said:
Mahomes played a perfect second half. He didn’t have the yardage because 1) The Chiefs scored a defensive TD, B) He had 6 carries for 44 yards and C) They only ran 53 plays, and three were kneel downs

The Chiefs are a very good team. The OL played incredible. Reid is a top 10 coach ever. Kelce is a HOF. But Mahomes was fantastic today. If you could vote units for MVP, I’d vote for the OL. You can’t, so Mahomes is worthy.
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His 26 yard scramble for a first down to take it to the 21 and take it almost to the 2 minute warning. We've just come to expect it.
 
#490
#490
VolsSportsFan said:
Well, while it's not proof by itself, there was only 1 defensive holding call the entire game for both teams.....the one at the end. In fact there weren't a lot of pentalties called period, 9 total. Of that 9, only 3 were judgement calls. 6 were offsides/false starts/delay of game, the other 3 were OPI/hands to the face/Defensive holding. All 3 of those were against Philly, and of those 3 I'd say only actually 2 were really judgment calls because hands to the face is pretty blatant.

So just from the stats, one could make the argument that it seemed like they were letting them play. Without being able to review the whole game with multiple angles I can't see if it truly was they were swallowing their whistle the whole game, neither team truly committed any other holding penalties, or somewhere in between (probably the right answer).

So I'll grant you it is more of a feeling than fact that it's odd they called something that wasn't completely eregious in the final minutes when it at least felt like they weren't calling ticky tack penalties the entire game. But I'll admit at the moment, I have no real video proof to back that up.
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fair enough - I've just been telling how I formed my opinion and most of my posts are clarifications or responses to people questioning my viewpoint.

there is no definitive answer. it was a pivotal call but I don't see it as an egregious call. clearly others feel differently
 
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#497
#497
Having not watched an Eagles game since their last Superbowl appearance, what's up with Hurts squatty stance when snapping the ball? Any particular reason he squats down like he does or is it just his style?
 
#498
#498
Not going to be a shining moment for the refs, but the alternative with a Eagles win would be discussing the the 10 point swing on two calls they made and reviewed and let stand on a drive that ended up in a FG. After a long review they applied their JUDGEMENT that it was not a fumble on the scoop and score, but that he did possess it long enough on the sideline bobble trying to pin it to his helmet later in the same drive. It was definitely controlled better on the non catch. That one screenshot with the jersey stretched is at least a point in time to hang on the wall. I did appreciate the class and character by the Green HC and player discussing the call in post game.

But bottom line, the call advanced the ball from the 15 to the 10 with just under 2 min to play and eventually the FG los was the same 10 yardline after they tried to give up the TD on the next play and 15 took a couple of snaps to kill the clock and center the ball. Should not overshadow the great run by Mahomes on a bad and painful wheel to get it to the 15.
 
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#499
#499
mackievol said:
Right call, horrible timing when that could be called on every play.
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Got ANY OTHER screenshots showing the jersey being stretched in space? By either team? Only one I have seen on the morning shows and it was the same two players but on a crossing route in the middle of the field. Guess he used up his free pass then. Eventually the ball landed 5 yards deep and 1 yard inbounds in the endzone. BUT the ball did not even have to be thrown for that call to be made.
 
#500
#500
volfanhill said:
It might be the greatest game Andy Reid has ever called. The whole second half players were schemed wide open
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Definitely agree on this. Reid's 2nd half approach was flat out perfect. Philly defense was absolutely confused and taken advantage of in situations where they shouldn't have been. Credit where credit is due, and there's a lot there.
 
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