Spectrum vs. Disney -- A Development Tracking Thread

[VOLfrombama]

No it is not, calling the number they provide for Disney is the right path. Charter can cave and pay more to Disney to have their channels, guess what happens to your bill. Leaving them now to get ESPN from someone else guess what is coming down the road higher cable bill. Charter is standing up now to this so it doesn't get out of control. Call Disney and tell them the company's that paid for commercials is missing on a ton of people through Charter.

Only bad thing right now is that Charter doesn't have any competition. Let's be real when is the last time you had any service or signal issue with Charter...me can't think of one. Dish a lot.

That last part is anecdotal evidence. My neighbors are constantly complaining about outages with Spectrum.

Disney+ is a free-standing streaming service created by Disney for fans of Marvel, Star Wars, etc. I don’t blame them one bit for not wanting to give Spectrum access for their customers. No idea why anyone else would think they should. It’s a good idea and good service that I doubt half of spectrum customers even want.

Id love to see how many people on VN actually want to see Marvel and Star Wars. I bet it’s 50/50 at best.

That’s what they’re fighting over btw. They want all Disney rights, not just espn and abc

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Only bad thing right now is that Charter doesn't have any competition. Let's be real when is the last time you had any service or signal issue with Charter...me can't think of one. Dish a lot.

I've had charter at my house multiple times over the years and it still isn't right. I've had the cable from the pole to my house replaced. It still drops. It drops for just a few seconds at a time usually multiple times a day. I've just accepted it at this point.

 

[Kngsport VFL]

Don’t blame Spectrum for refusing to pay the ransom, call Disney, the ones holding the hostage

Spectrum has never give their customers a break, when the introductory price expired. F them. I’m going to YouTube.

 

[madtownvol]

Remember Disney is losing money on ESPN, their streaming properties and their over the air networks. Any reduction of money coming into ESPN (7.5m*$10 a month or $900m a year) is really needed by Disney.

Without the bundling Disney noose around Charter’s neck they might be the cheapest provider for non sports watchers and might grow their subscribers.

Actually, ESPN has been and continues to be Disney's cash cow. The problem is that it is not as profitable as it used to be. From an August, 2023 NYT report:

With its dual revenue stream — fees from cable subscribers and advertising — the sports juggernaut continues to earn billions of dollars for Disney. In the first six months of the 2023 fiscal year, Disney’s cable networks division, which is anchored by ESPN and its spinoff channels, generated $14 billion in revenue and $3 billion in profit.

The problem: Wall Street is fixated on growth. Revenue for those six months was down 6 percent from a year earlier, as profit plunged 29 percent.

Companies like Disney and Spectrum are also focused on future growth because that is what investors want. Under the current revenue stream model. ESPN is going to generate less profits over time, as the costs of broadcasting rights escalate and the number of cable subscribers declines

For that reason, Disney is planning to convert all its ESPN content to a direct to consumer stream where viewers subscribe directly to Disney (or another media giant if they sell it off) and leave cable providers out in the cold.

And Charter knows that move will be the death of the cable bundle. Hence, they are trying to gain concessions from Disney related to this planned streaming future.

At first, I thought both sides had enough $ incentives to reach a compromise but I am thinking more and more Disney will take the massive short term loss in revenue from Charter in order to protect its envisioned future revenue.

Cable is dying and Disney is happy to quick its demise.

 

[joceppyjoe]

Right now to get all of ESPNs content you have to pay both. Charter is trying to get it included in your TV package. Sounds like they are trying to improve your TV service.

Do you use Spectrum for TV? I know some people have the same opinion as you. I do not. If Spectrum was so concern about their customers why did they not let us now before Thursday that they may let the Disney channels drop?

 

[JCHateSteve]

Do you use Spectrum for TV? I know some people have the same opinion as you. I do not. If Spectrum was so concern about their customers why did they not let us now before Thursday that they may let the Disney channels drop?

I do but only because it comes with my phone/internet. I also have Sling. It is my parents primary cable and I used to work for them as well.

I am not saying they "care". I'm saying consumer interests and their's align in this matter. If charter wins you'll get more content or stop having to pay for Disney owned streaming in return for a higher cable bill. If Disney wins you get a higher bill with nothing and you can expect the same when the contract is up with every other video provider.

I'm not defending Charter. They suck and I know that better than most as a former employee. But this is Disney's first fight with a video provider that is also a major isp over streaming. If they win it will ripple to the whole industry in a negative way. I'm not on Charter's side, I'm on mine.

 

[volfan102455]

For that reason, Disney is planning to convert all its ESPN content to a direct to consumer stream where viewers subscribe directly to Disney (or another media giant if they sell it off) and leave cable providers out in the cold.

Cable is dying and Disney is happy to quick its demise.

Companies like Spectrum will continue to provide the infrastructure to support the streaming market. That is where their future lies. If the infrastructure to support internet streaming is not robust enough to support all the households, the seconds delay experienced today will turn into what happens in Neyland today where many of us have no cell phone or internet access during the game due to the demand.

Disney will take a hit UNLESS they price point the direct-to-consumer ESPN to overcome the loss of $$'s. Everyone who has cable is not going to subscribe to ESPN, yet today with the package Disney gets $$'s from every cable subscriber whether the subscriber watches those channels or not.

A lot of the money that ESPN is generating is from the "packages" that cable, YouTube TV, etc. pays to Disney.

 

[volfan102455]

I do but only because it comes with my phone/internet. I also have Sling. It is my parents primary cable and I used to work for them as well.

I am not saying they "care". I'm saying consumer interests and their's align in this matter. If charter wins you'll get more content or stop having to pay for Disney owned streaming in return for a higher cable bill. If Disney wins you get a higher bill with nothing and you can expect the same when the contract is up with every other video provider.

I'm not defending Charter. They suck and I know that better than most as a former employee. But this is Disney's first fight with a video provider that is also a major isp over streaming. If they win it will ripple to the whole industry in a negative way. I'm not on Charter's side, I'm on mine.

This - not sure why some don't get it. There is one option that is better for consumers than the other.

 

[Hunerwadel]

Does anyone have fubo? I've been thinking about cutting the cord for a long time now. I would like to know if their reception and service is up to snuff.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

Disney will be the big $ loser in this if Spectrum walks away as they will lose all of Spectrums 25M customers that pays for ESPN and other Disney channels. Spectrum says they pay Disney $2.2B/ yr for the current Disney rights. Been reading several articles about this today and Spectrum says they can drop TV service and focus on their internet - phone services if Disney doesn't offer them a better deal. Disney won't give up ESPN+ and Disney+ for free as Spectrum wants and is threatening to start offering the ESPN package for direct streaming from Disney only.

Sounds to me like both companies are trying to position themselves for the future and don't agree with the others strategies. As a Spectrum customer I of course want the best deal for me but wish they would settle and let me decide if I want to stay with Spectrum or not. I have had no trouble with Spectrum service for 2+ yrs.

This will resurface when Disney contracts come up for renewal with other providers so what happens here determines future deals.

 

[madtownvol]

Companies like Spectrum will continue to provide the infrastructure to support the streaming market. That is where their future lies. If the infrastructure to support internet streaming is not robust enough to support all the households, the seconds delay experienced today will turn into what happens in Neyland today where many of us have no cell phone or internet access during the game due to the demand.

Disney will take a hit UNLESS they price point the direct-to-consumer ESPN to overcome the loss of $$'s. Everyone who has cable is not going to subscribe to ESPN, yet today with the package Disney gets $$'s from every cable subscriber whether the subscriber watches those channels or not.

A lot of the money that ESPN is generating is from the "packages" that cable, YouTube TV, etc. pays to Disney.

Well, that is the real issue.

Pricing and how much customers are willing to pay. As I noted in an early post, the cable bundle has been great for sports fans because millions and millions of non-watchers of ESPN type programming, subsidize those who do.

As more and more people "cut the cord," that model is becoming unstable, particularly when people can turn to Hulu and Youtube, which for now at least, tend to be cheaper than cable.

So, when Spectrum ways they are willing to exit the cable business altogether, they are not likely to be bluffing- internet and phone is their future not the dying cable market.

But that also means that, as you note, the cost of watching sports will be going up, as the cable bundle subsidy ends.

Since Disney owns a big stake in Hulu, they will likely keep their content relatively affordable in a Hulu bundle but, otherwise, like Disney+, it will be a direct-to-consumer stream.

And I never said would not take a hit. They are going to take a 2 billion dollar loss in the short term if they don't settle with Spectrum. But they have no long term interest in compromising the potential revenue stream of their direct to consumer content but cutting a deal with Spectrum, unless Spectrum agrees to pay an astronomically higher carriage fee, which would only lead more customers to leave for Hulu or youtube TV

But all the streaming ventures are entering into a brave new world, as the cable bundle subsidy goes away.

 

[TheVolsFrog]

This - not sure why some don't get it. There is one option that is better for consumers than the other.

Because most didn't take the time to actually go read and see what's going on or for some reason don't understand how cable and carrier rights work.
They just know they pay their cable bill and they now don't have football.
I will say Charter should've gave a heads up to their customers but they're on the right side this time and that's the side that would benefit me

 

[Dadof2Vols]

A dated article but extremely relevant to understand the fundamental flaws of ESPN business model. This is also why I say you will have to pay Disney $30-50 monthly “to have your ESPN/SECN” when they take these DTC….

ESPN Lost 8 Million Subscribers in 2021, 10% of its overall subsc

Last year ESPN lost eight million cable and satellite subscribers, finishing 2021 with around 75 million total subscribers. That eight million subscriber loss, an average of nearly

www.outkick.com

 

[TheVolsFrog]

Disney will be the big $ loser in this if Spectrum walks away as they will lose all of Spectrums 25M customers that pays for ESPN and other Disney channels. Spectrum says they pay Disney $2.2B/ yr for the current Disney rights. Been reading several articles about this today and Spectrum says they can drop TV service and focus on their internet - phone services if Disney doesn't offer them a better deal. Disney won't give up ESPN+ and Disney+ for free as Spectrum wants and is threatening to start offering the ESPN package for direct streaming from Disney only.

Sounds to me like both companies are trying to position themselves for the future and don't agree with the others strategies. As a Spectrum customer I of course want the best deal for me but wish they would settle and let me decide if I want to stay with Spectrum or not. I have had no trouble with Spectrum service for 2+ yrs.

This will resurface when Disney contracts come up for renewal with other providers so what happens here determines future deals.

This is Spectrum

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

A dated article but extremely relevant to understand the fundamental flaws of ESPN business model. This is also why I say you will have to pay Disney $30-50 monthly “to have your ESPN/SECN” when they take these DTC….

ESPN Lost 8 Million Subscribers in 2021, 10% of its overall subsc

Last year ESPN lost eight million cable and satellite subscribers, finishing 2021 with around 75 million total subscribers. That eight million subscriber loss, an average of nearly

www.outkick.com

The news in the weeks before this showdown was "Disney is looking to unload ESPN" or "Disney is looking for a strategic partner for ESPN" seems odd.

I'm not an insider in the industry but I can't imagine interested parties didn't see this coming between Charter and Disney.

It's a helluva time to put your business up for sale when insiders surely know you might very well be facing about $2B in short term losses.

Who would be interested in picking up a company potentially about the lose a nice chunk of their business?

 

[Dadof2Vols]

The news in the weeks before this showdown was "Disney is looking to unload ESPN" or "Disney is looking for a strategic partner for ESPN" seems odd.

I'm not an insider in the industry but I can't imagine interested parties didn't see this coming between Charter and Disney.

It's a helluva time to put your business up for sale when insiders surely know you might very well be facing about $2B in short term losses.

Who would be interested in picking up a company potentially about the lose a nice chunk of their business?

I think Disney thought ESPN is to big for anyone especially someone the size of Charter to walk away from.

I think this will be a huge mind shift in the industry no matter whether Disney backs down, Charter backs down or Charter walks. All media eyes in the industry are on this showdown.

 

[LAVol1]

If you understand economics, you know that the free market is the most efficient determinant of price. The market is now adjusting to Disney's mistakes. The market is telling ESPN they overpaid for their sports contracts because they are operating at a loss and their attempts to increase revenue and cut costs are falling short. They have to do something to survive and if they can't increase revenues or lower costs, the Mouse will ultimately die. I look for ESPN to try to get out of the contracts with the SEC and other conferences. Then, the conferences would stream their programming direct to consumer and probably fair better than they do with the ESPN contract, and the consumer will be paying a reasonable but fair price.

 

[Voltopia]

A dated article but extremely relevant to understand the fundamental flaws of ESPN business model. This is also why I say you will have to pay Disney $30-50 monthly “to have your ESPN/SECN” when they take these DTC….

ESPN Lost 8 Million Subscribers in 2021, 10% of its overall subsc

Last year ESPN lost eight million cable and satellite subscribers, finishing 2021 with around 75 million total subscribers. That eight million subscriber loss, an average of nearly

www.outkick.com

Lol. I bet they try 69.99. Or at a minimum 59.99. They'll need the overhead so they can "come down on prices and seem reasonable" to the public. Can't give discounts at 39.99. Can give discounts at 69.99.

I also bet they try a "everything" tier, including that waste of space ESPN+, and then targeted tiers for either conferences or "all sports." I imagine they have plenty of data telling them just what they can extract from people. Will be interesting to see just how much they try to gouge viewers.

 

[MurphyVol]

If you understand economics, you know that the free market is the most efficient determinant of price. The market is now adjusting to Disney's mistakes. The market is telling ESPN they overpaid for their sports contracts because they are operating at a loss and their attempts to increase revenue and cut costs are falling short. They have to do something to survive and if they can't increase revenues or lower costs, the Mouse will ultimately die. I look for ESPN to try to get out of the contracts with the SEC and other conferences. Then, the conferences would stream their programming direct to consumer and probably fair better than they do with the ESPN contract, and the consumer will be paying a reasonable but fair price.

ESPN isn't operating at a loss, they made a net profit of $3 billion the first half of 2023. Profit dropped but they still netted billions.

 

[WillOverstreetFanClub]

If you understand economics, you know that the free market is the most efficient determinant of price. The market is now adjusting to Disney's mistakes. The market is telling ESPN they overpaid for their sports contracts because they are operating at a loss and their attempts to increase revenue and cut costs are falling short. They have to do something to survive and if they can't increase revenues or lower costs, the Mouse will ultimately die. I look for ESPN to try to get out of the contracts with the SEC and other conferences. Then, the conferences would stream their programming direct to consumer and probably fair better than they do with the ESPN contract, and the consumer will be paying a reasonable but fair price.

It can’t end any other way. It’s just which path will they take, the short abrupt death or the long slow death.

 

[vols 30]

Lol. I bet they try 69.99. Or at a minimum 59.99. They'll need the overhead so they can "come down on prices and seem reasonable" to the public. Can't give discounts at 39.99. Can give discounts at 69.99.

I also bet they try a "everything" tier, including that waste of space ESPN+, and then targeted tiers for either conferences or "all sports." I imagine they have plenty of data telling them just what they can extract from people. Will be interesting to see just how much they try to gouge viewers.

If that's the case, Bob Kessling forever

 

[BJSforVols]

Does anyone have fubo? I've been thinking about cutting the cord for a long time now. I would like to know if their reception and service is up to snuff.

We used fubo when Sling lost ESPN last football season for a few days. It was fine, but YouTube was the better option for us to get all of the sports we had been watching on Sling TV.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Lol. I bet they try 69.99. Or at a minimum 59.99. They'll need the overhead so they can "come down on prices and seem reasonable" to the public. Can't give discounts at 39.99. Can give discounts at 69.99.

I also bet they try a "everything" tier, including that waste of space ESPN+, and then targeted tiers for either conferences or "all sports." I imagine they have plenty of data telling them just what they can extract from people. Will be interesting to see just how much they try to gouge viewers.

I think Hulu is about $69.99 for Live, ESPN, ESPN+, Disney, Disney+, etc for us.

If Disney thinks Hulu subscribers are willing to pay double for the same content, I'm unsure that's going to work.

 

[madtownvol]

If you understand economics, you know that the free market is the most efficient determinant of price. The market is now adjusting to Disney's mistakes. The market is telling ESPN they overpaid for their sports contracts because they are operating at a loss and their attempts to increase revenue and cut costs are falling short. They have to do something to survive and if they can't increase revenues or lower costs, the Mouse will ultimately die. I look for ESPN to try to get out of the contracts with the SEC and other conferences. Then, the conferences would stream their programming direct to consumer and probably fair better than they do with the ESPN contract, and the consumer will be paying a reasonable but fair price.

Actually, Disney is bleeding $ on Disney + having lost a staggering 11 billions dollars since its inception. So, if the market is telling Disney anything, is that their streaming business model is a failing. Disney has always earned profit from their ESPN networks and ABC but those profits are falling. And those declines have to do with losses in cable bundle revenues as decline as customers flee the Spectrum, Comcast, and DirectTV.

ESPN without contracts for major sporting events would be in big trouble. The bulk of their users tune in for college football, the NBA etc and not "First Take" and all their other filler content.

But, the future you envision may come to pass as current contracts expire. So, the Big Ten, the SEC, NFL, NBA may all move to direct to customer streams and cut out not just cable but the on-line bundlers like youtube TV.

And then we would have a dilemma because huge rights contracts have been made possible by the bundles, whereby non-watchers subsidize watchers.

IF and when leagues and conferences go to exclusive direct to consumer streams relative costs will likely escalate as they charge more for those fans who in economic terms, have a lower price elasticity (i.e. they will pay whatever it takes to watch their favorite sport or team).

 

[WillisWG]

How much is Hulu worth? As Disney prepares to buy Comcast's share of the streamer in the coming weeks, Bob Iger may have to pay a hefty price.

Disney plans to buy Hulu from Comcast, but the streaming service won't come cheap. Here's how much Hulu is really worth, based on Disney analysts' projections.

www.businessinsider.com

With Disney buying the rest of Hulu, I would expect an agreement to return ABC/ESPN to Comcast/Spectrum