Source of O-Line Woes?

#51
#51
Drew Richmond's play made the whole line look bad. I think they are improving each week;.but that doesn't mean they will handle a SEC defensive line. But I don't think they will give up or quit on CF or CJP. At this point, that is all you can ask.
 
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#52
#52
sjt18 said:
Did you mean to say Pruitt? If so... yeah... a lot of these comments sound like the ones we heard 5 years ago. The difference to me is that for all his flaws Dooley didn't try to reinvent offense in the SEC. Jones saw himself as an innovator. Dooley may have been too "CEO" in his approach but Chaney and Pittman were better at developing OL's than Jones and any combination of offensive assistants he had.
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Crazy we had UGA's current offensive coaching staff working for us under Dooley. Now they are world beaters at UGA.
 
#53
#53
sjt18 said:
Part of the problem was that Jones thought you could use undersized "quick" OL's in his perfect offensive scheme. He was going to reinvent offense in the SEC you know...

What he apparently didn't get is that the 320 lb OL's in the SEC are quicker and more athletic than the 290 lb guys he had at Cincy and wanted to recreate at UT.

Smith at 320 is SEC in every respect. Niehaus probably weighs in the 290's. He's marginally big enough to play OT but is needed at OG. Jahmir Johnson is also undersized out of JUCO. Ryan Johnson gained up to 300 since Pruitt arrived but needs to be closer to 310. Locklear is in the 290-300 range iirc. Carvin is a Fr but has the right measurables. Hall needs to be healthy. Tatum is also undersized to play in the middle where he's needed and marginal to play OT.

Richmond has the right measurables but doesn't have great feet or power.

Part of what we're seeing is lack of S&C prior to this past January.

Part is the "techniques" Jones demanded his OL coach teach. One of the first whispered criticisms came from the OL's he inherited and alum OL's who watched practice. They were confused by the techniques he was trying to get the OL's to do. Many here of course blamed the players and Dooley. Time proved that Jones flatout didn't know what he was doing with regard to OL techniques.

Part is just mistakes by guys being asked to work together to execute a new scheme with limited time together as a unit.

UT could use more quality depth. Some of those guys aren't as talented as expected. There are a lot of moving parts for the coaches to work on at the same time.
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i remember just last week you placed some of the blame on JG saying he has to check and get them into the right assignments/ plays and such. now this? you are literally all over the place with your responses.
 
#54
#54
I believe that the OL will continue to get whipped during the gauntlet of GA, AUB, AL and maybe SC. If they continue playing together, not get injured, learn the system, they will be better through the rest of the season.
 
#56
#56
sjt18 said:
Part of the problem was that Jones thought you could use undersized "quick" OL's in his perfect offensive scheme. He was going to reinvent offense in the SEC you know...

What he apparently didn't get is that the 320 lb OL's in the SEC are quicker and more athletic than the 290 lb guys he had at Cincy and wanted to recreate at UT.

Smith at 320 is SEC in every respect. Niehaus probably weighs in the 290's. He's marginally big enough to play OT but is needed at OG. Jahmir Johnson is also undersized out of JUCO. Ryan Johnson gained up to 300 since Pruitt arrived but needs to be closer to 310. Locklear is in the 290-300 range iirc. Carvin is a Fr but has the right measurables. Hall needs to be healthy. Tatum is also undersized to play in the middle where he's needed and marginal to play OT.

Richmond has the right measurables but doesn't have great feet or power.

Part of what we're seeing is lack of S&C prior to this past January.

Part is the "techniques" Jones demanded his OL coach teach. One of the first whispered criticisms came from the OL's he inherited and alum OL's who watched practice. They were confused by the techniques he was trying to get the OL's to do. Many here of course blamed the players and Dooley. Time proved that Jones flatout didn't know what he was doing with regard to OL techniques.

Part is just mistakes by guys being asked to work together to execute a new scheme with limited time together as a unit.

UT could use more quality depth. Some of those guys aren't as talented as expected. There are a lot of moving parts for the coaches to work on at the same time.
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Awesome insights sj you increased my understanding of the magnitude of the OL issues. Thanks
 
#57
#57
lexkyvol said:
i remember just last week you placed some of the blame on JG saying he has to check and get them into the right assignments/ plays and such. now this? you are literally all over the place with your responses.
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Not if you actually read my responses rather than seeing a criticism of JG and going blind to everything else I write. I've NEVER said the OL wasn't a problem. JG has struggled with his checks and calls. He's struggled reading D's. It was a warm up game but I honestly think he took a step forward Saturday. There was one particular play in the 2nd half where he made a line call and appeared to change the side the play went to. I hole opened up on the right side right where he had changed the play to.

You guys need to learn that honest criticism is just that... and nothing more.
 
#60
#60
You guys ever sit back and think about how inexperienced this group really is ?

Trey Smith - as talented as it gets BUT he is only a sophomore , didn’t go through spring practice , only has been available for contact less than 4 weeks.

Johnson. - great talent BUT has only played one year of CFB and on the juco level. Needs an offseason in our S and C to hit his needed size.

Riley Johnson - supposed to be playing Guard not C. Talented big but he is not Kennedy , who was to be a fixture at C

Carvin - great talent but is only a freshman , had broken foot last year and didn’t play that much his senior year of HS and needs a year in our Sand C also

Richmond - is a decent player but if Hall is healthy he is a backup.
 
#61
#61
Its simple, Botch Jones is at the heart of these woes. The last good OL we had was given to him by Dooley. We had one of, if not the best OL coaches in the country on staff and he fired him for a MAC level OL coach. Botch brought a MAC level mentality into the SEC. he thought undersized, quicker OL works. It doesnt in the SEC.

Then in 2015, he fires Dave Lawson. We go from being a potential top 10 team, that Alabama regarded as one of the most physical they played, to an injury riddled joke full of soft, slow, weak OL who couldnt block a HS DL. We are on our 3rd S&C coach since 2015. That's absolutely insane. We have basically lost 2 years of S&C.
 
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#62
#62
Our O-line lacks confidence. A line with a lot of confidence is a great unit.. we have some really good talent and we have great coaches. It’s mental for most on our line. Just my opinion. GO VOLS BEAT THOSE gators!!!!!!!
 
#65
#65
Based on reading responses on this thread?
No one knows jack squat. Even Trey is struggling in this system. I for one am not sold on Helton or Friend. Friend wanted out of Colorado State and left an OC position. I can see why? Heltons biggest job is a byproduct of nepotism.
 
#69
#69
Kelley_VFL said:
We have had the worst OL in the SEC for multiple years in a row. How is that supposed to magically change in one year?
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I liked this comment because you're correct but we shouldn't even know we have OL problems with who we've played so far this year. To watch ETSU and UTEP run through our OL is alarming.
 
#70
#70
MBVFL1 said:
I agree with those, Richmond does not at all. Really miss Jack Jones that boy had it for sure. Of course unfortunately his time was cut short really hate it for him, we could really use his kind of grit and determination.
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LOL, here we go....Nasty Jack....watch his film b4 he got hurt. He was horrible and only played because he threatened to quit and his daddy pumped a lot of cash to CBJ. And this is FACT
 
#71
#71
I am hopeful it is just them not playing together enough. The concern though is the right side of the line with Richmond. You shouldn't have a bad game like that against UTEP. Very concerned on the SEC teams scouting us and putting their best DE on the right side every passing down.
 
#72
#72
The class average for the oline comes out to 2.2 out of 4.0 (~Sophomore level) so they are young. Next year they will be in beast mode.
 
#73
#73
I think a big part of what they were missing was a big time strength and conditioning coach. Now, I think we have that. But it will take some time for these guys to get bigger and stronger so they can get that "push up front." It doesn't come overnight. It's hard to be patient......but it will just take some time.
 
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#74
#74
As I understand it, I could be wrong but our center isn’t calling blocking audibles to adjust for blitzes, our QB is. So, (many are gonna hate this), is our pass blocking any better with other QB’s are in? If so there’s part of the answer, if not it’s a system deficiency.
 
#75
#75
sjt18 said:
Part of the problem was that Jones thought you could use undersized "quick" OL's in his perfect offensive scheme. He was going to reinvent offense in the SEC you know...

What he apparently didn't get is that the 320 lb OL's in the SEC are quicker and more athletic than the 290 lb guys he had at Cincy and wanted to recreate at UT.

Smith at 320 is SEC in every respect. Niehaus probably weighs in the 290's. He's marginally big enough to play OT but is needed at OG. Jahmir Johnson is also undersized out of JUCO. Ryan Johnson gained up to 300 since Pruitt arrived but needs to be closer to 310. Locklear is in the 290-300 range iirc. Carvin is a Fr but has the right measurables. Hall needs to be healthy. Tatum is also undersized to play in the middle where he's needed and marginal to play OT.

Richmond has the right measurables but doesn't have great feet or power.

Part of what we're seeing is lack of S&C prior to this past January.

Part is the "techniques" Jones demanded his OL coach teach. One of the first whispered criticisms came from the OL's he inherited and alum OL's who watched practice. They were confused by the techniques he was trying to get the OL's to do. Many here of course blamed the players and Dooley. Time proved that Jones flatout didn't know what he was doing with regard to OL techniques.

Part is just mistakes by guys being asked to work together to execute a new scheme with limited time together as a unit.

UT could use more quality depth. Some of those guys aren't as talented as expected. There are a lot of moving parts for the coaches to work on at the same time.
Click to expand...



I think this post hits the nail on the head. Another aspect that is often overlooked in 'development', or lack thereof is the complexities of playing offensive line from a mental and physical point of view. Run blocking is a skill that takes time and repetition . Guys that have not run blocked in the bone Butch cluster are not going to learn this skill in a few weeks. It is a complex thing like teaching some one to hit a baseball or teaching a boxer to punch together a fluid exact combination. The muscles develop over time and repetition. Not to mention that a pro-style system is a choreographed , exacting thing that takes a ton of mental reps. I look for our guys to play into the role late in the season ...but for a few weeks they are going to be putting it together.
 
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