Sinema Takes Lead Over McSally

There’s so much to unpack in this...

It’s ironic to see somebody complaining about false narratives while repeatedly making the assertion that anybody disagreeing with them is brainwashed by liberal media.

It’s also ironic to see someone arguing that Trump’s blanket restrictions on letting people of color in from outside this country make us safer, while arguing that the Trumpists have been unfairly branded as xenophobes.

Whether you like it or not, Trumpism, as a political coalition, includes readers of the Daily Stormer and David Dukes. Arguments to the contrary don’t merit the sourced response that you’re demanding.

I do agree that it’s lazy and offensive to paint the entire right with that broad brush of “racist.” Some of my earlier posts in this thread discussed my interest in seeing a primary challenger to determine what percentage of the political right was affiliated with trump and his angry rhetoric vs. a more reasonable conservative like Ben Sasse.

Ideally, the solution here is that we’d all stop making lazy, offensive generalizations about anyone who disagrees with us on a given issue. That seems like a pipe dream, so the way I see it, if you don’t like being associated with certain members of a political movement, either refuse to be associated with that movement, or have a well-supported and distinct rationale for supporting the portions of the coalition’s agenda that are supported by the factions that you find distasteful.
So some of us are totally behind enforcing strict(er) border laws (why have them if you don’t enforce them.) while recognizing the value of immigrants in our work force and population. We do indeed need to bolster our present work force. And our birth rate is in decline. But why shouldn’t we be selective in the admittance selection process? Frankly I’d like to see a stronger tie between the various work visa programs and present job openings. I’d submit right now work visas are somewhat hijacked by a couple of pretty shrewd countries.

Asylum and actual oppression is a completely different matter. Where there is a genuine case of danger we should respond and I expect our leaders to do so. I also expect them to have checks and balances to prevent asylum claims from being abused. Not saying ignore the claim. I’m saying provide temporary safe haven and validate the claim. And I believe that is the current general intent.
 
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where do you get your news then? An echo chamber? online blogs? You can watch/listen to NPR for fair and balanced news. They normally give both points of view. Fox is Biased as well as CNN. Even if you listen to NPR, you still have to have the wherewithal to research subjects on your own and make an informed decision.

Do you believe everything that your Pastor tells you, or do you study the Bible yourself? The Bible tells us to pray for wisdom and discernment for a reason, and that can be applied to Spiritual as well as Carnal matters.

I apologize for jumping in here but we don't have to get all of our information from a third party. Listen our leaders or politicians own words via speeches, recordings or what they actually write themselves. Trump has given the world a great gift with his tweets. Like him or not there is little doubt about what he is saying. You can make your own mind up as to whether agree or whether you like it or not.
 
I apologize for jumping in here but we don't have to get all of our information from a third party. Listen our leaders or politicians own words via speeches, recordings or what they actually write themselves. Trump has given the world a great gift with his tweets. Like him or not there is little doubt about what he is saying. You can make your own mind up as to whether agree or whether you like it or not.
true, but everyone is not on The Twitter or The Facebook...so they have to trust someone to disseminate the information for them. Even with news programs, they only show clips, or excerpts because our attention span is so short.
 
It will be interesting to see what happens at the other seat. AZ Gov was wanting that seat. With the blues taking some spots at the state level I think he will be pressured to stay the full term.
 
Has the question of why Arizona takes so long to count ever been answered?
Lazy people who get mail in ballots don't mail them in. Instead they drop them off day of the election. Also every county runs their own election then has to report to the state. some counties are poop
 
Has the question of why Arizona takes so long to count ever been answered?
Apparently the vast majority of voters in AZ do so by mail. My guess is a lot of retirees splitting time between a couple places but calling AZ home for tax purposes.
 
Thanks guys.

I remember the 2016 election wasn't called for a while either. Of course, Arizona wouldn't have mattered so it was forgotten to the "OMG! TRUUUUUUUUUUMP!" media machine.
 
It’s also ironic to see someone arguing that Trump’s blanket restrictions on letting people of color in from outside this country make us safer, while arguing that the Trumpists have been unfairly branded as xenophobes.

If you're talking about the caravan, race has little to do with why Trump opposes it.

It has everything to do with the fact they're coming in illegally. If they would go to the designated checkpoints and seek asylum in a legal fashion, most Trump supporters would be ok with this.
 
So some of us are totally behind enforcing strict(er) border laws (why have them if you don’t enforce them.) while recognizing the value of immigrants in our work force and population. We do indeed need to bolster our present work force. And our birth rate is in decline. But why shouldn’t we be selective in the admittance selection process? Frankly I’d like to see a stronger tie between the various work visa programs and present job openings. I’d submit right now work visas are somewhat hijacked by a couple of pretty shrewd countries.

Asylum and actual oppression is a completely different matter. Where there is a genuine case of danger we should respond and I expect our leaders to do so. I also expect them to have checks and balances to prevent asylum claims from being abused. Not saying ignore the claim. I’m saying provide temporary safe haven and validate the claim. And I believe that is the current general intent.

I was hoping this would have gotten a liberal response before I responded to see if anybody pushed back on it.

My idea is different but I think your points are good and probably more realistic.

Basically, why don’t we just do an initial vetting process at the border (I.e. are you likely to fly a plane into a building?) and grant probationary visas that have to be renewed periodically, for a fee, a brief interview about what you’re doing, and possibly a home visit. Like being on criminal probation. While they have an active probationary visa, they can work and live like a resident. Meanwhile, everyone is sorted into different queues based on manner, purpose, and preparedness at entry with priority given to those who are more prepared and meet a need and additional payment options available to move to a priority queue. When the full vetting process is complete, their number is called and they report to their local office for an interview and they receive a green card or are put on a path to citizenship, or whatever their intent is.

Anybody caught without a probationary visa or with an expired visa (with few exceptions) gets evaluated and if they’ve been law abiding residents they’re given a visa and put to the back of the longest, slowest line. If not, they’re deported, disqualified from receiving a probationary visa, and/or denied re-entry.

Essentially, right now, anybody showing up at our border can wait in a tent town or try to cross illegally. This process would remove the incentive to cross illegally for most people by going ahead and basically giving them the benefits. By associating fingerprints with each probationary visa we can create a database that will keep them from illegally obtaining welfare benefits and know when they commit crimes. The only risk people would be taking at that point is that they may be ultimately denied, which is a different criteria that I don’t have an answer for.

Basically, treat various queues like Disney World with merit based, need based, and discretionary “fast passes” available for people that come prepared, find work, etc.

I think you and @Matt2496 bring up a good secondary point, which is that a lot of people (myself included) question the intentions of this administration, based on their messaging and lack of credibility. I think that’s being conflated with disagreement over the end goals of immigration reform.
 
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