Say it aint so! Please!

#26
#26
bigdaddy said:
I see what you are saying but what were your seasons expectations in wins and losses pit to this point? The stat is odd to look at but to me it's just a number. Year one I was expecting 5 maybe 6 and year two 6 and a bowl. So really it's not that far off. Maybe by one
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It doesnt matter what my expectations for the season are, we lost a game we should have won and the coach is mostly responsible. It hurts me to say it, but its true.
 
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#27
#27
KingtUT said:
Im telling you that I thought Butch was going to be such a good coach (and may still be) that a stat like this would never be possible. Make all the excuses you want about these players or those players but the bottom line is....through 27 games he's tied with Dooley aint thats heart breaking for me because I had so much confidence in Butch.
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Dooley took a 7-6 team and went:
6-7
5-7
4-7 (+1 after he was fired)

Butch Jones had a 5-7 year, then a 7-6 year with the first bowl win since 2008. Wait until the end of the year to make your judgment.

Dooley's teams faced 10 ranked opponents over his first 27 games. Butch Jones' teams have faced 14 in the same time period.

There's a very distinct curve and we're moving upward. It's not as fast as some people on here want it, but it is improving.

And as for talent, Dooley had more draft picks in the beginning of his tenure. Butch got left with jack diddly. Yes, we have extremely talented players right now, but they're young.
 
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#28
#28
KingtUT said:
The fact that Butch has more talent than Dooley ever dreamed of yet has the same record simply blew my mind. I believe / believed in Butch and this fact just hurts, that all.
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Look a little deeper. The program is in much, much better shape now than it was under Dooley. Butch still has much to prove and still has to actually win some games here....but anyone who mentions their equivalent records and this point with the intention of trying to say that Butch isn't doing a better job than Dooley ever did either isn't paying attention or has an agenda.
 
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#29
#29
KingtUT said:
It doesnt matter what my expectations for the season are, we lost a game we should have won and the coach is mostly responsible. It hurts me to say it, but its true.
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It absolutely matters since the whole idea behind this thread is that Butch doesn't have enough win to suit you. How many did you think he should have at this point?
 
#30
#30
utvolpj said:
It absolutely matters since the whole idea behind this thread is that Butch doesn't have enough win to suit you. How many did you think he should have at this point?
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Well I know of at least 5 that he should have right now...
 
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#31
#31
Isn't it kind of odd to compare coaches after so many games instead of waiting until the end of the season? In all likelihood this team is going to end up going around 8-4. That would put him at 20-18 and trending upward compared to 15-21 and trending down. Even if we somehow only went 7-5 that's still an improvement and 19-19 is better than 15-21. Now would we be happy with 7-5 this year? HELL NO. But is he better than Dooley? HELL YES.
 
#32
#32
KingtUT said:
It doesnt matter what my expectations for the season are, we lost a game we should have won and the coach is mostly responsible. It hurts me to say it, but its true.
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But your thread was comparing the records so I was asking questions about what your thread was based on
 
#33
#33
How easy it to pick the flaws in a game or just in life, there are fewer, so, lets attack that, and while were at it, how many men/women that post here or are Vol fans, I'm sure if I had access to everyone's personal information and work, I think it would be easy for me to pick on your hourly wage, profession, the mistakes you made in your check book, spending habits, legal or illegal drug use, # of marriages, child support, speeding tickets etc. etc., but people here get a kick out of beating up 18/19 men and a program that has been on the down for over 10 years......so, sit back and top judging......what is the old saying on judging....yea thought so. So, if you want to criticize a play call go for it, I am sure we have a least 1,000 prior Div I coaches on this site..........It makes me sick to see someone kick a man or woman when their down. You can get on here and defend yourself all you want and justify your right as a fan to spew out all that stuff about how Butch Jones is not a good coach or the wide receivers, you can easily and I might say, a lot easier for any of us to just not be Vol Fans, I am willing to bet there is no big donors on this site that has the ear of UT AD.......now if you want to refute or blaze me...........I don't give a flying flip, if you get your kicks out trying to impress your friends with your football acumen......you're just kidding yourself, you don't know squat!

Go Vols! :rock:
 
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#34
#34
utvolpj said:
It absolutely matters since the whole idea behind this thread is that Butch doesn't have enough win to suit you. How many did you think he should have at this point?
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Expectations dont mean a thing. If we lose a game because of coaching it doesnt make it better just because I may have picked us to lose the game in the first place. Its a game we shouldve won and because of poor coaching (and a few plays left out on the field) we didnt.
 
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#35
#35
KingtUT said:
Expectations dont mean a thing. If we lose a game because of coaching it doesnt make it better just because I may have picked us to lose the game in the first place. Its a game we shouldve won and because of poor coaching (and a few plays left out on the field) we didnt.
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When was the last time you were on a football field at this level?..........yea, didn't think so, you are an ignorant person and saying things like this, just proves my point...you are an id.....
 
#36
#36
I'll just leave this here

According to Rivals:

Dooley's recruiting class ranking each year

9
13
17
Average: 13

Butch's class' ranking

21
5
16 - currently
Average: 14 (if current class ranking holds)


My point being that in reality, so far at least, the only real difference between the two is that unlike Dooley, Butch has been a great ambassador for the program and cares about the university and these players. Dooley cared only about himself.
 
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#37
#37
This stat is skewed. Dools was trending so badly he was fired, lost to UK and Vandy. Butch has recruited better, and beaten better teams all those 27 games aren't created equal.

Can you sit here and honestly tell me that in week three with Butch Jones we are in a worse place than we were with Dools?? You and I know the answer to that question. So this thread is pointless, we are doing much better in all areas of the game under CBJ and if we keep recruiting top 5 classes we will win games in spite of coaching, our players will be that much better than our opponents.

Hell look at the OU game, last year got blown out, this year we lost but anyone who watched that game could see we were as good if not better that OU despite losing that game. You should watch Seahorn on CFB live compare Texas and Tennessee, he said that Tennessee is light years ahead of them and that we lost the OU game because with a young team we still don't know how to close out games like that, but the talent is there. We will learn to start beating teams like this, and I think that it will start in Gainesville next week.
 
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#38
#38
utvolpj said:
You still failed to address the issue of what Dooley left for the next coach. Those 27 games you're counting include many played with what was left over from the Dooley experiment

Come on, tell us what you were truly thinking when you started this thread!
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Now PJ, using logic isn't fair.
 
#40
#40
fade route said:
I'll just leave this here

According to Rivals:

Dooley's recruiting class ranking each year

9
13
17
Average: 13

Butch's class' ranking

21
5
16 - currently
Average: 14 (if current class ranking holds)


My point being that in reality, so far at least, the only real difference between the two is that unlike Dooley, Butch has been a great ambassador for the program and cares about the university and these players. Dooley cared only about himself.
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Your rankings (and your conclusions) are way off

2014 - #5
2015 - #5
 
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#43
#43
fade route said:
I'll just leave this here

According to Rivals:

Dooley's recruiting class ranking each year

9
13
17
Average: 13

Butch's class' ranking

21
5
16 - currently
Average: 14 (if current class ranking holds)
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I'm trying really hard to figure out what the hell this post is supposed to mean? You're pulling the ranking of a class all the way out in September? Lol what? You also skipped a class.

These numbers are Composite 247.
2010: 9
2011: 14
2012: 20
2013: 24
2014: 7
2015: 4

Dooley 3 class average: 14.3
CBJ 3 class average: 11.6

And that's after salvaging the trash can class that Dooley handed him. Would you like to count just classes that they were entirely responsible for?

2011 & 2012 = 17
2014 & 2015 = 5.5

Notice, again, the trend.
 
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#44
#44
fade route said:
I'll just leave this here

According to Rivals:

Dooley's recruiting class ranking each year

9
13
17
Average: 13

Butch's class' ranking

21
5
16 - currently
Average: 14 (if current class ranking holds)


My point being that in reality, so far at least, the only real difference between the two is that unlike Dooley, Butch has been a great ambassador for the program and cares about the university and these players. Dooley cared only about himself.
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You left out a class...2015?
 
#45
#45
both inherited nothing.. Jones has Assembled more talent ion terms of different makers and speed
 
#46
#46
The very fact that people have to compare to Dooley to justify Butch's lack of wins is itself evidence that he is not getting it done.
 
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#48
#48
SGMVols said:
The very fact that people have to compare to Dooley to justify Butch's lack of wins is itself evidence that he is not getting it done.
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They're compared because one followed the other.

This act really makes you look foolish
 
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