Rick Barnes discussion (merged)

#5,276
#5,276
BigOrangeMojo said:
Barnes inherited a down team in a program that had a 20 year period of moderate, mostly sustained success. It's not like he inherited a downtrodden program with limited success in prior 2 decades.

Pearl inherited a program with only a blip of success in past 25 years (under Green).

Both coaches should be commended but comparing the programs they inherited is apples to oranges
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I think the previous five years is better to look at than the previous 25. Like if Barnes retired tonight, the next coach would be taking over an extremely healthy program, even if it was in the doldrums 20 years ago. Who cares? And the fact is Bruce took over a roster with some real talent and no recent NCAA trouble that I’m aware of (and changed that), while Barnes took over a completely barren roster and a program that had fired two of its last three coaches for NCAA stuff, the previous one after just a single year.
 
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#5,277
#5,277
VolFreakJosh said:
Who’s “we”?

You’re not paying him anything.

That’s the dumbest argument that somehow, morons think holds any accountability.
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No matter how many times you repeat it, his contract is a legit subject. Big time money usually means producing results. For some reason, you don't think it matters.
 
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#5,278
#5,278
VolFreakJosh said:
Who’s “we”?

You’re not paying him anything.

That’s the dumbest argument that somehow, morons think holds any accountability.
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The money spent on football, basketball tickets, Tennessee gear, etc isn’t going to the athletic department who then pays the coaches? News to me
 
#5,279
#5,279
JoeMiltonsAgent said:
Never said the Vols shouldn't have paid Barnes whatever it took to keep him. Like you were alliterating to, it kept the momentum going forward for the program.

Hindsight being 20/20, Fulmer and his braintrust bringing in a Jeremy Pruitt for basketball would have left us not even lamenting a loss in the Sweet 16 tonight.

We will just agree to disagree on the point about the PR expert though. All these coaches deal with PR to a point and some things are best left unsaid.

Not that its a huge issue 4 years later. I just don't have the orange colored glasses on like some guys here and can like Barnes while acknowledging his faults.
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Oh i agree. I genuinely like Barnes and realize we are now cruising as a program but this current trajectory is needing to go higher. But at end of the day, Barnes is likely only here for 2-3 more seasons max…. So I’d rather much roll with him even with the likely ending being known each year then kick the tires on him, doing a buyout, and going the mid major route.

I’m not opposed to parting with him but there are prolly only 3-4 coaches I would do it for and they would have to be locked up 10000% before considering it.
 
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#5,280
#5,280
volsforever27 said:
No matter how many times you repeat it, his contract is a legit subject. Big time money usually means producing results. For some reason, you don't think it matters.
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No, it doesn’t.

It’s stupid and pointless to care enough about how much he makes.

That’s between Barnes and Danny White.

JFC.
 
#5,283
#5,283
VolArmy74 said:
It's very comparable. Pearl took over a roster with 3 top 100 recruits + sophomore Lofton. Barnes had two top 100 players but Hubbs was ranked higher than anyone Pearl inherited, and Admiral, plus Punter who was a top 10 Juco recruit and pretty great scorer.

Barnes took over a program that has been to 7 of the prior 11 NCAAs, 2 years off a sweet 16, with great facilities. Pearl took over a corpse that people were so down on, we got called out by the basketball community for firing Buzz after his disastrous run. Those facilities Barnes got to take advantage of, were built during Pearl’s time.
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CJ Watson was a senior PG for Pearl. Major Wingate was a top 60 big man. Andre Patterson was a transfer but top 75 player.

Admiral was a 3 star freshman who was barely a top 250 player. Hubbs was damaged goods from injuries and Barnes actually maximized him from posting him up late in his career. Punter’s shot was re-done, and then he got hurt the last 10 games of the season.
 
#5,286
#5,286
VolFreakJosh said:
No, it doesn’t.

It’s stupid and pointless to care enough about how much he makes.

That’s between Barnes and Danny White.

JFC.
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What is the point in being a fan if you can’t give your thoughts and opinions? If we have no say in anything and are just supposed to shut up and cheer on no matter what then we outta stop spending so much money and time on the program. What a stupid post. JFC
 
#5,287
#5,287
JMSqb11 said:
Barnes took over a program that had 2 coaches in a 15 month time frame due to bolting and a firing and had 1 appearance in tourney over their tenures and was a full recruiting class removed from the previous stable/top tier coaching staff… the drop in program state and.quality from Pearl’s firing to Barnes’ Hiring was much worse than what Pearl walked into….
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Have to agree to disagree.

A) Donnie Tyndall was a better coach/teacher of basketball than Buzz could dream of being. His one year at least made players on the roster better.

B) Jerry Green also bolted. Except we hired Buzz, who was actually as bad or worse than Wade Houston on game day and as a developer of talent. Buzz buried us.

Making the tournament in year one under Pearl is the biggest basketball miracle ever here, and that's coming from someone who watched Mears coaching in Stokley.
 
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#5,289
#5,289
VolGee4 said:
That’s a nice spin, but teams lose important players from year to year. Pearl inherited an NBA PG, our program’s best shooter in history, and a top 50 big guy. Barnes inherited a top Juco player. Martin was terrible at recruiting in his 3 years, and Tyndall tried to shuffle the deck. Martin took Pearl’s players (plus Richardson and Stokes) to the SS, and only Richardson remained for Tyndall. What they inherited aren’t comparable.

That’s also not to say anything bad about Pearl at UT. I loved him, but it’s being intellectually dishonest in saying Pearl had the tougher job at first. Maybe Pearl had to work more to get TBA sold out. But the personnel wasn’t close.
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Look at Memphis. Just like us, 5 coaches there in past 25 years (more than 1 year). Only one coach (Cal) made it to the 2nd weekend.

In the same timespan, we've had 4 coaches do that.

I never said Bruce inherited a worse team but he inherited a far worse program than Barnes....
 
#5,292
#5,292
EaglesVols91 said:
What is the point in being a fan if you can’t give your thoughts and opinions? If we have no say in anything and are just supposed to shut up and cheer on no matter what then we outta stop spending so much money and time on the program. What a stupid post. JFC
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Then stop spending money on tickets and merchandise.

B*tching about it won’t change anything.

It’s that simple.
 
#5,296
#5,296
BigOrangeMojo said:
Look at Memphis. Just like us, 5 coaches there in past 25 years (more than 1 year). Only one coach (Cal) made it to the 2nd weekend.

In the same times pan, we've had 4 coaches do that.

I never said Bruce inherited a worse team but he inherited a far worse program than Barnes....
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I agree that Bruce needed to be a salesman. But the narrative that Barnes inherited a better situation is just not true. The roster he was handed was bad. That’s why it took 2 years to develop 3 stars.

I didn’t think Martin’s lucky run to the SS had any bearing on our program. It was headed down until Martin left. He was not sustaining it.
 
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#5,297
#5,297
D3Athlete said:
Only seen 2 elite teams all year. That is UConn and Houston. K state isn’t playing them out. That game will be close.
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Ok. You still had a W in the bag and me and you could've been just as productive on O as our senior-laden team for a 7 minute stretch.
 
#5,299
#5,299
VolGee4 said:
I agree that Bruce needed to be a salesman. But the narrative that Barnes inherited a better situation is just not true. The roster he was handed was bad. That’s why it took 2 years to develop 3 stars.

I didn’t think Martin’s lucky run to the SS had any bearing on our program. It was headed down until Martin left. He was not sustaining it.
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Yeah, as much as I have fond memories of that run, it was fueled almost entirely by seniors and a junior J-Rich. Nearly lost in the first four and benefited from playing a really low seed in the second round (I wanna say Mercer?). Not a sign the program was healthy at all, and that was reflected in the new few years to follow
 
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