Recruiting Forum Off Topic Thread III

[Glitch]

I missed it all, I logged out after my last post because I was so upset. This particular topic really upsets me too much to engage..It brings up emotions that are really painful for me...I sat here and cried for an hour.

I'm sure there are some who think that is hilarious or silly. I just wonder what my child would look and sound like, what music would they have liked, what movies? What would their life be like?

I will never know...

I feel for you and will pray for you to find peace and forgiveness if you haven't already.

 

[Glitch]

That's a horrible side effect of abortion. Everyone says it's the mother's decision but she only donated half the chromosomes need to create life. This is another reason I can't agree with abortion. The father has the same rights as the mother even when the child is the womb. Unfortunately the courts don't view it as such.

Agreed. It takes two to tango. Both patents should have to be present and sign off. Of course I don't think it should happen at all but until then...

 

[BJHSVol]

Murder is defined as the crime of unlawfully killing another person. I think that killing a person can be described as taking an action that causes the other persons heart to stop beating. A baby's heart begins to beat at approximately 6 weeks. Most women discover that they are pregnant between the 4 to 7 week mark. Therefore, by the definition of murder, many, if not most, abortions should be considered murder.

It doesn't take religious beliefs to see that killing unborn babies is wrong.

I think there's a legitimate argument that it takes more than just a heart heart to be a person. No fully formed organs, not being able to survive outside the womb even with medical support etc.

If a person is brain-dead but still has a heart beat is withholding medical care murder?

 

[Rishvol]

I think there's a legitimate argument that it takes more than just a heart heart to be a person. No fully formed organs, not being able to survive outside the womb even with medical support etc.

If a person is brain-dead but still has a heart beat is withholding medical care murder?

Not trying to be mean just curious... What's your profession?

 

[JacketVol]

There was no call for his post. He recognized it. Give him a little credit for that.

I did but it was swiped away while I was editing

 

[JacketVol]

I missed it all, I logged out after my last post because I was so upset. This particular topic really upsets me too much to engage..It brings up emotions that are really painful for me...I sat here and cried for an hour.

I'm sure there are some who think that is hilarious or silly. I just wonder what my child would look and sound like, what music would they have liked, what movies? What would their life be like?

I will never know...

Wrong there bud. One day you will. I believe that.

 

[Rishvol]

I think there's a legitimate argument that it takes more than just a heart heart to be a person. No fully formed organs, not being able to survive outside the womb even with medical support etc.

If a person is brain-dead but still has a heart beat is withholding medical care murder?

It takes three things for an organism to be "living" growth, reproduction, and energy. A child in the womb has all three. They grow from the second they ar conceived. Their cells reproduce at an astounding rate. And, thanks to the mother, they have energy needed to grow. That's not debatable. Talking scientifically the child is living the second it is conceived.

 

[BJHSVol]

Not trying to be mean just curious... What's your profession?

Pharmacist

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I feel for you and will pray for you to find peace and forgiveness if you haven't already.

Thanks..I need them, it is one of the darkest episodes of my life and when those feelings get dredged up I tend to really really lose it. I forced my self to come back here and engage because I recognize I need to get past that for good.

 

[Rishvol]

Pharmacist

Thanks. Biology teacher though I am admittedly in between jobs at the moment

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I think there's a legitimate argument that it takes more than just a heart heart to be a person. No fully formed organs, not being able to survive outside the womb even with medical support etc.

If a person is brain-dead but still has a heart beat is withholding medical care murder?

Just meat then..is that your opinion? If she hadn't aborted our child..he..she..would be here..with me..right now..

It is not just meat, it is infanticide, the murder of innocent life unable to defend itself or even speak in it's behalf. A newborn can not survive outside the womb on it's own either, so is it OK in your "opinion" to tear it to pieces and throw it in a garbage can because it inconviences someone?

 

[BJHSVol]

It takes three things for an organism to be "living" growth, reproduction, and energy. A child in the womb has all three. They grow from the second they ar conceived. Their cells reproduce at an astounding rate. And, thanks to the mother, they have energy needed to grow. That's not debatable. Talking scientifically the child is living the second it is conceived.

"Living" by that scientific sense includes bacteria, cattle, etc. If that definition is all that's needed to be meet then killing any of those things should be illegal.

There's a difference between those things and a human being though. And I don't think a fetus makes that transition until the third trimester at the earliest.

Personally, I hold the potential to reach "personhood" as enough to not want abortion in my own life. But I don't think at the point of most abortions the fetus has reached "personhood" so the government should not make abortion illegal.

 

[BJHSVol]

Just meat then..is that your opinion? If she hadn't aborted our child..he..she..would be here..with me..right now..

It is not just meat, it is infanticide, the murder of innocent life unable to defend itself or even speak in it's behalf. A newborn can not survive outside the womb on it's own either, so is it OK in your "opinion" to tear it to pieces and throw it in a garbage can because it inconviences someone?

A newborn can survive outside of womb with proper medical care, but no amount of medical care could bring an early-term fetus to birth.

I don't meant to be insensitive, and I think both parties should have a say before any action because of the potential to become a person.

But because I can see where there are different viewpoints on when a fetus achieves "personhood" I think the government should take the most broad or least invasive stance and then allow its citizens to use or not use abortion as fits their beliefs

 

[Chief Vol 13]

Tell him to just take a dump in the sink in the bathroom that the Office of Good Feelings people use and tell them that the sink identified as a toilet so he assumed it was ok? :blink:

I'm on it

 

[bignewt]

Go ahead and have sex outside of marriage. Just don't expect the taxpayers to pick up the tab. As a libertarian, you should be all about less government and personal responsibility.

I am about less government, also that they should stay out of peoples lives. I really dont like to discuss the issue its the most polarizing and emotional so yall carry on.

 

[Glitch]

I think there's a legitimate argument that it takes more than just a heart heart to be a person. No fully formed organs, not being able to survive outside the womb even with medical support etc.

If a person is brain-dead but still has a heart beat is withholding medical care murder?

People have been convicted of double homicide for killing a pregnant woman. How can you say that because the child was at week x it is a person and can be murdered but before week x it is not capable of being murdered? If you walked into the hospital room of a brain dead person and killed them it would still be murder. The double standard applied to an unborn child because it hasn't yet had the opportunity to express its desire to continue living and growing is appalling.

What else ya got cause so far you've put forth nothing of substance? Not your fault. There just is no argument that makes it ok.

 

[Glitch]

I am about less government, also that they should stay out of peoples lives. I really dont like to discuss the issue its the most polarizing and emotional so yall carry on.

I agree with you on less government. Someone has to protect those that cannot protect or speak for themselves though.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

We have had this discussion before. I realize the problem is bigger than just a simple decision. I just can't reconcile abortion with my religious beliefs and saying I can't afford this kid is not a good excuse for killing a life. Quit making bad decisions. Quit having sex outside of marriage. Take personal responsibility for your decision to have sex. Society should not have to pay for it. No need to move left. Just hold people accountable. We try to take care of everyone and now people don't know how to take care of themselves. We created this problem by starting welfare in the first place. There are hundreds of non-profits that are much better suited to handling the welfare situation than our government.

That's just not how society works, though. Taxpayers will end up footing the bill if abortion is done away with one way or another. Whether it's school lunches, or an increase in funding for police forces because of higher rates of crime, or increased funding for things like CPS, we'll end up paying for it. "Everybody should just be more responsible" isn't a realistic solution.

If we had social systems in place to make it so that raising a child was not an economic burden, it would naturally lead to fewer abortions. But most conservatives hate socialism more than they do abortions.


FTR, I'm a libertarian and I think that the cheapest, easiest, free-est solution would be to just say that most medical experts agree there's about a 20 week window where a fetus isn't quite a human yet and to make it cheap and easily accessible to terminate a pregnancy before that time.



The idea that we can do away with abortion without having to foot any societal bills is the heart of naivety.

 

[BJHSVol]

People have been convicted of double homicide for killing a pregnant woman. How can you say that because the child was at week x it is a person and can be murdered but before week x it is not capable of being murdered? If you walked into the hospital room of a brain dead person and killed them it would still be murder. The double standard applied to an unborn child because it hasn't yet had the opportunity to express its desire to continue living and growing is appalling.

What else ya got cause so far you've put forth nothing of substance? Not your fault. There just is no argument that makes it ok.

But the closest of kin can remove medical support for a brain dead person and it not be murder. We allow them to make that decision. If another person does it it's murder because they don't have the right to make that decision.

I would say a fetus and someone brain-dead are comparable in that sense. Someone else can't make that decision, but they aren't fully persons

 

[Glitch]

That's just not how society works, though. Taxpayers will end up footing the bill if abortion is done away with one way or another. Whether it's school lunches, or an increase in funding for police forces because of higher rates of crime, or increased funding for things like CPS, we'll end up paying for it. "Everybody should just be more responsible" isn't a realistic solution.

If we had social systems in place to make it so that raising a child was not an economic burden, it would naturally lead to fewer abortions. But most conservatives hate socialism more than they do abortions.


FTR, I'm a libertarian and I think that the cheapest, easiest, free-est solution would be to just say that most medical experts agree there's about a 20 week window where a fetus isn't quite a human yet and to make it cheap and easily accessible to terminate a pregnancy before that time.



The idea that we can do away with abortion without having to foot any societal bills is the heart of naivety.

We have just slowly but surely created a society that is dependent on the government teet. People have to be weened but it has to get back to the point where people are ashamed to be on government assistance. I don't mean that to be mean either. It just that we used to be a very proud people and taking handouts was beneath us. Now folks line up to get their gumment cheese and then demand more. There is a tipping point where the producers won't be able to produce at the level required to feed the moochers and then the whole thing breaks down. Gotta start the weening now.

 

[Glitch]

But the closest of kin can remove medical support for a brain dead person and it not be murder. We allow them to make that decision. If another person does it it's murder because they don't have the right to make that decision.

I would say a fetus and someone brain-dead are comparable in that sense. Someone else can't make that decision, but they aren't fully persons

True but a brain dead person has no chance of living a normal life. The unborn child does. Until the person that should be protecting it decides to kill it. It is the ultimate betrayal.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

We have just slowly but surely created a society that is dependent on the government teet. People have to be weened but it has to get back to the point where people are ashamed to be on government assistance. I don't mean that to be mean either. It just that we used to be a very proud people and taking handouts was beneath us. Now folks line up to get their gumment cheese and then demand more. There is a tipping point where the producers won't be able to produce at the level required to feed the moochers and then the whole thing breaks down. Gotta start the weening now.

Agree whole heartedly. Get your rear end out of the house and work.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

We have just slowly but surely created a society that is dependent on the government teet. People have to be weened but it has to get back to the point where people are ashamed to be on government assistance. I don't mean that to be mean either. It just that we used to be a very proud people and taking handouts was beneath us. Now folks line up to get their gumment cheese and then demand more. There is a tipping point where the producers won't be able to produce at the level required to feed the moochers and then the whole thing breaks down. Gotta start the weening now.

Hey, I agree with this! Allowing people to have a choice to avoid risking their ability to be financially independent is an important step in reaching that goal. Taking away that ability will just add to the problem.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

People have been convicted of double homicide for killing a pregnant woman. How can you say that because the child was at week x it is a person and can be murdered but before week x it is not capable of being murdered? If you walked into the hospital room of a brain dead person and killed them it would still be murder. The double standard applied to an unborn child because it hasn't yet had the opportunity to express its desire to continue living and growing is appalling.

What else ya got cause so far you've put forth nothing of substance? Not your fault. There just is no argument that makes it ok.

Those arguments he makes are why I can't engage on this..no matter what you say, they won't listen. It makes me violently angry. It makes me just want shove the people who support abortions face through a plate glass window..that is a not right, I know it, but it is not easy to choke that feeling out. It raises a pure hatred in me that is against everything I desire to be, no matter how justified it is.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Update:

If y'all don't think the University of Tennessee is trying to socially manipulate your children, you need to think again. If we had time, we'd choose a different University. If I'd have known what was going to happen, I'd have sent an extra battery for my son and told him to put his ear buds in and watch YouTube videos. You shouldn't be forced to watch the crap they were presenting.

And, he was told if he left he would be charged another$200 and be forced to go through orientation again.