Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXI

[seaofORANGE22]

You would fire him for completing most of your list while having a team that had countless injuries and a couple cancers?

I mean my faith in Butch took a hit this season, but damn. If you run a business how often are you turning over your employees?

He didn't really complete most of my list though. In YEAR 4(!) we lost to Vanderbilt, South Carolina, had starters in the game and sweated it out against App State and OHIO(!). We did break the streak against Florida but still have a miserable one going against Bama.

He probably deserves another year. But I dont think it's that crazy to think we could have hired a good HC this offseason. If we had a new AD in place awhile back this may have happened. Who knows. That's just my opinion and I don't need anybody to agree with it.

He's built a solid foundation. I'm not trying to downplay what he's done here. I just think this was probably the year to make the change and still hit the ground running if we were going to ever do it. If we make it a year or two down the road, then most of our 2015 class full of stars are mostly gone and we're likely looking at another rebuild. I just don't think we will attract as good of a coach at that point.

But who knows. None of this matters.

 

[theutvolunteers]

It did? I thought it was more about Stripling.

Definitely was talk of Debord stepping down.

 

[Vols4us]

No elite HC will come to UT as it is today. The best we can hope for is a football savvy AD that directs Butch to make appropriate changes to improve as a HC that leads to at least a shot at an SEC title every once in awhile. Which is even lower than the yearly expectation at a few other SEC programs. But we have no football savvy AD.. We haven't had one since Dickey retired in 2002. Coincidence that the football program declined, HC's turn over, fan base gets polarized, media trashes, etc.? Nope.

Hiding behind injuries is ridiculous. Butch is in charge of the deficient S&C as well as roster development. He had many healthy guys in the two deep that were totally clueless on the field. That led to USCe and Vandy losses. That has to change for the program to improve.

 

[Maxwell]

I guess I have expectations that we won't lose to Vanderbilt or Kentucky ever.. That we will beat Mizzou and South Carolina most years. That we will win our cupcake games going away and won't have the starters in late. That we won't have long losing streaks to any of our main rivals including Bama. That we will compete for the East every year and be nationally relevant in the world of college football. We should be in or near the top 25 at all times.

I would describe everything above that as aspirations rather than expectations. I hope to have some years where it all comes together and we win the SEC and make the playoffs. I hope we win it all someday. But those aren't realistic "expectations" to have year to year for anybody right now except Bama. And their bubble is gonna pop eventually. We just have to be ready to take advantage when it does.

This past season did not meet my expectations. If it was up to me I would have fired Butch Jones and we would be looking for a new head coach right now. But it is not, and I accept that that's not my role. But I'm also not going to rule out the possibility that Butch could turn it around here with the right hires and some good breaks. I only get 12 games a year guaranteed. I'm going to always look forward to each one and look for The ways I think we could win. Butch has us at least to the point where we could win any game on the schedule.

He gets one more year to prove it. I hope he does.

This is a good post, but if the losses start mounting he won't get the whole year. I remember as a kid when the pre-season polls came out I always looked to see where Tennessee was ranked. I expected top 15 and very often we were there. If it was 15 to 20 I was a little disappointed but hoped for better results on the field. I was always disappointed if it was 21 or below and immediately thought , oh well, not a great bowl. My how expectations have changed on the hill, and in most fans minds. Now , when I was a kid we were a pretty solid 8th in all time wins. Now we are 10th or eleventh , or so people on here have said. Think about the losses it took to drop two or three spots all time ! It just really saddens me. I'm sorry but I want to be 8th again. It will take more wins then I will ever see in my lifetime to get there, but I want my children, grandchildren, etc., to always be able to go to a game in Neyland and see a competitive team that is one of the elite in college football. I grew up thinking in the top 8 is our rightful place. I definitely do not want to be 11th or lower when I die. At some point our administrators, coaches and their staff must be held to a higher standard. Let's make the right hires, and get back on track to being in the top ten most of the time. Let us please not settle for a top 20 to 30 team. We have everything we need on campus and a better recruiting base in Tennessee to pick players from. We see Ohio St. , Alabama, and a few others win every year. We may never be Bama ( we never really were in my lifetime ), but lets be the old Tennessee again.

 

[Aesius]

No elite HC will come to UT as it is today. The best we can hope for is a football savvy AD that directs Butch to make appropriate changes to improve as a HC that leads to at least a shot at an SEC title every once in awhile. Which is even lower than the yearly expectation at a few other SEC programs. But we have no football savvy AD.. We haven't had one since Dickey retired in 2002. Coincidence that the football program declined, HC's turn over, fan base gets polarized, media trashes, etc.? Nope.

Hiding behind injuries is ridiculous. Butch is in charge of the deficient S&C as well as roster development. He had many healthy guys in the two deep that were totally clueless on the field. That led to USCe and Vandy losses. That has to change for the program to improve.

I think Butch is learning just about every hard lesson a coach can get in this business. The question is whether he internalizes those lessons and applies them moving forward. The bowl game preparation (full-contact practices for just about everyone, which didn't happen much in fall camp) and new S&C coach already have me a bit more optimistic about 2017 and his future here.

 

[NMVol]

So Shoop was the proven home run hire and...well let's just hope circumstances allow a healthy rebound. Will be interesting to see how durability and depth hold up on D next year.

On O sure QB is a question but their seem to be a nice line-up waiting, Byrd and Jennings are back, TE seems stable, Kelly has some spark, Fils-Amie had some nice reps, Chandler coming in, O-Line maturing (technique and physicality on upward trajectory). Sure we will miss Dobbs' running yards, they will be hard to replace. OC not as big of an issue as many are making it out to be. If push came to shove CBJ would just call plays with the pieces he has in place.

Look for JJ, Byrd and Kelly to carry the O. We will see where the QB strength lies but I bet we see some new dimensions. Another year with the OLine might make Mahoney look that much better.

Still need stability and recruiting. Just got to think all the glamour projected on coaching is a bit much. We beat GT and extend the winning ways against UF and UGA next year and things get interesting. Seems like we will have some player leadership up to the task.

 

[volfanCLT]

The problem with scott is he will leave in a couple years for a HC gig.

I wouldn't let that stop me. I don't like borrowing trouble from the future.

I think a Scott Wienke combo is a great upgrade.

They could be selling Wienke on coming in as the QB coach and taking over for Scott when he leaves for a HC gig in the next couple of year.

I could see Butch and Co planning that far ahead and having that scenario played out.

 

[rocktopper16]

So, not that anyone cares buuuut. Jalen Hurd still hasn't transferred. He hasn't asked Tennessee to speak with any school. He has till the 16th to declare for the draft. What is the kid doing?

 

[chavisut]

Name these moves from 1-2 months ago.

No specifics. Just general board chatter that has gone on for awhile. Maybe the big moves part has been more recent, but certainly longer than 3 days.

 

[amazingGRACE]

So, not that anyone cares buuuut. Jalen Hurd still hasn't transferred. He hasn't asked Tennessee to speak with any school. He has till the 16th to declare for the draft. What is the kid doing?

Don't know, don't really care

Lost all respect for him for quitting on his team mid season

 

[seaofORANGE22]

This is a good post, but if the losses start mounting he won't get the whole year. I remember as a kid when the pre-season polls came out I always looked to see where Tennessee was ranked. I expected top 15 and very often we were there. If it was 15 to 20 I was a little disappointed but hoped for better results on the field. I was always disappointed if it was 21 or below and immediately thought , oh well, not a great bowl. My how expectations have changed on the hill, and in most fans minds. Now , when I was a kid we were a pretty solid 8th in all time wins. Now we are 10th or eleventh , or so people on here have said. Think about the losses it took to drop two or three spots all time ! It just really saddens me. I'm sorry but I want to be 8th again. It will take more wins then I will ever see in my lifetime to get there, but I want my children, grandchildren, etc., to always be able to go to a game in Neyland and see a competitive team that is one of the elite in college football. I grew up thinking in the top 8 is our rightful place. I definitely do not want to be 11th or lower when I die. At some point our administrators, coaches and their staff must be held to a higher standard. Let's make the right hires, and get back on track to being in the top ten most of the time. Let us please not settle for a top 20 to 30 team. We have everything we need on campus and a better recruiting base in Tennessee to pick players from. We see Ohio St. , Alabama, and a few others win every year. We may never be Bama ( we never really were in my lifetime ), but lets be the old Tennessee again.

I feel ya on that. I guess for me I have seen us not even be in the picture for so long that just hearing TN in the conversation feels special to me these days. And it is sad that it's fallen to that.

It's gonna take a special coach to get us back to where you envision us. I think that's ultimately what were all aspiring towards.

 

[bignewt]

So, not that anyone cares buuuut. Jalen Hurd still hasn't transferred. He hasn't asked Tennessee to speak with any school. He has till the 16th to declare for the draft. What is the kid doing?

Honestly i think he just may done with the game. That hit he took may have done him in.

 

[LynxVol]

Other than Helfrich, I don't know any other "big moves" that were out there. The Helfrich train gained a lot more steam than it should have through 247 for sure and likely VQ to an extent. In typical VN fashion, the mole hill was made into a mountain.

 

[MrVolton]

Other than Helfrich, I don't know any other "big moves" that were out there. The Helfrich train gained a lot more steam than it should have through 247 for sure and likely VQ to an extent. In typical VN fashion, the mole hill was made into a mountain.

I think it was real possibility until the 49ers fired Chip Kelly.

 

[jave36]

So, not that anyone cares buuuut. Jalen Hurd still hasn't transferred. He hasn't asked Tennessee to speak with any school. He has till the 16th to declare for the draft. What is the kid doing?

No one ever thought he was transferring, guarantee he declares

 

[chavisut]

Other than Helfrich, I don't know any other "big moves" that were out there. The Helfrich train gained a lot more steam than it should have through 247 for sure and likely VQ to an extent. In typical VN fashion, the mole hill was made into a mountain.

There were none out there. I'm talking about the board. There were plenty of posters talking about how Butch just needed to make the big staff moves and faith would be restored.

 

[Maxwell]

Honestly i think he just may done with the game. That hit he took may have done him in.

I think Hurd was frustrated and had lost some of his standing with his teammates. He got some bad advice from a relative and quit. Now he is sort of in a weird place that he probably isn't sure which way to navigate out of. I think he eventually will go pro instead of transferring which is probably a better option. I did see where one scout said he didn't hurt his draft stock by leaving as much as many think. Why would that be? Maybe he projects as a tight end in the pros? Perhaps he would not be drafted all that high anyway? I don't know.

 

[omghulkhands]

Other than Helfrich, I don't know any other "big moves" that were out there. The Helfrich train gained a lot more steam than it should have through 247 for sure and likely VQ to an extent. In typical VN fashion, the mole hill was made into a mountain.

I think it was legit until Kelly got fired IMO

I think DeBord leaving is bizzare unless you were comfortable with someone on staff to be better (obviously Scott)

If it is Scott then Butch clearly believed he was better going forward than DeBord (unless there was no stopping DeBord from leaving)

 

[Vols4us]

I think Butch is learning just about every hard lesson a coach can get in this business. The question is whether he internalizes those lessons and applies them moving forward. The bowl game preparation (full-contact practices for just about everyone, which didn't happen much in fall camp) and new S&C coach already have me a bit more optimistic about 2017 and his future here.

That's really my point in all this. He has the drive to get this done. Can he get his stubbornness out of the way? He needs an AD that has a strong personality and is football savvy. He is going to run right over anybody else.

I love the S&C hire. I don't love that he thought he could do it any other way for 4 years and there was no AD to hit him in the head over it. He is great at bowl prep. The game plans reflect what they should be trying to accomplish every game of every season. But then you watch crap like Appy, Ohio, USCe, Vandy, etc. along with the horrible first half performances and wonder what is going on in his head those times?

As I have stated before, I was at a couple camp practices. They were live action and physical. What I saw that I questioned were more than a dozen players in the the two deep that were sitting out or wearing green jerseys. I could tell that JRM was not healthy at all. I saw guys with taped up serious ankle sprains practicing (Phillips, Kendrick, Thomas), while others without any apparent issues not practicing at all. Who knows?

 

[volinbama256]

I get the feeling that Dormady is gonna end up being the starter. I don't know why. Guarantano just seems so fun and I feel like we're gonna a have to wait longer for it.

Dormady starting 2017 = 6-6 at best.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Dormady starting 2017 = 6-6 at best.

Would have to agree 😞

 

[volinbama256]

Would have to agree 😞

And I guarantee JG didn't come to UT to sit for two years... Dormady will be a casualty of being recruited over... Since it looks as though we are getting another season of Butch ball, where he is in control of everything, we will not turn into a pro-style to fit Dormady's style. JG, raw or not, fits the current offense we run...

 

[Glitch]

Would have to agree ��

Why? Just because he isn't Dobbs? We all assume the JG is going to be the next greatest thing, and maybe he will, but Dormady has shown great ability to push the ball down the field. If he is able to get more reps with the 1's then he will be more comfortable. Plus if the OL takes the next step in their development then they will be able to provide more protection on pass plays. All this will force the opposing D's to respect the down field game more and open up the run game for Kelly, CFA, Chandler, and Coleman.

Could we be 6-6? Sure. We could also be 8-4 or 10-2. Just have to wait and see.

 

[SSVol]

Would have to agree 😞

I don't. Dormady would make throws downfield. With the box less crowded, he would find a handful of running opportunities per game. He's not Dobbs, but neither is he Worley. OL should be shaping up nicely as well. In limited snaps he looked very comfortable driving the bus.

 

[Dust10]

Seems to be an excessive amount of hate for Dormady around here. Not sure why.