Realistic options with our HC (Long Post)

[alavolfan]

I agree.

Even if we beat Vandy, the stars align to give us Penn St/Michigan in the Citrus, and we dominate them by +10 points to end up 8-5. I'll be pi$sed if Fulmer gives Pruitt an extension.

I staunchly defended keeping Pruitt through 2020 when we were seemingly at our worst. I don't think he's earned any extra job security by salvaging the season though.

Next year win the East, or finish 10-3 with a convincing win in a New Year6 game to even consider an extension/raise for Pruitt.

Don't overreact and fire a coach. Don't reward a coach too soon again like we did with Butch either.

Agree 100%. Two losses early in the season to cupcakes and a 6-5 record(or assuming we beat Vandy and a bowl game 8-5) does not earn an extension or a bump up in salary. Just does not!

 

[Billy Ratliff]

stack up SEC upset wins?

This goes back to setting the bar low. Auburn and Kentucky in 2018, yes. In 2019, all these games they were “underdogs” in was because they started the season 0-2. this isn’t hindsight. I made jokes about people lying that the other team was favored and I needed to run to Vegas. The sad part is I didn’t actually head to Vegas.

in this stretch, you are talking about a soon to be 4-8 South Carolina, a 6-6, 7-5 Kentucky with no QB, a 6-6 Missouri team that lost to Vandy, Kentucky and Wyoming in the same season, a soon to be 3-9 Vanderbilt and UAB.

I’m impressed he didn’t lose the team. I’m impressed that they did come around to playing at a much higher level despite the level of competition. Am I impressed that Tennessee was able to go out and beat these scrubs? No.

Dude....I specifically said they weren’t good teams. They were pretty evenly matched. But statistically the amount of upsets he has in his first two years is notable and a big improvement from his two predecessors.

 

[OrangeBlitz]

Am I impressed that Tennessee was able to go out and beat these scrubs? No.

Here's the thing. I kinda am. I understand that Butch is by no means an acceptable measuring stick, but if he were still our HC (God forbid), would we be 6-5 right now? No.

There's no way he would have been able to make the run we've made since playing you guys. That tells me that Pruitt has our guys taking care of competition that's on our current level. We're beating lower to mid level SEC competition. In the long run, that's not an acceptable ceiling, but for a while now we've been incapable of even that.

I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that the players Pruitt inherited are not the best to run his style of football. So he has to get them to buy into what he's selling until he can recruit the guys he wants. I've seen people post here that players aren't inherited, they're developed. I understand the sentiment, but that's not entirely true.

Coaching can only go so far. I come from an IT background, so let me frame this in those terms. If you wanted to improve how your PC runs and I suggest you can get it done by making a change in the registry, you might need help in how to do that. I tell you to open regedit, but that mucking about in there can make your PC a paperweight. I give you very detailed instructions on how to navigate to your intended destination and what value to change. You, however, only half listen and take no care to follow what I've said. Your PC is trashed because you screwed up the change.

Is that my fault because I didn't "coach" you sufficiently enough? Nope. You were a horrible student.

I'm not saying our players don't want to win, or that they didn't want to at the beginning of the season. I'm saying that it's easier to tend toward laziness and wanting to do things the way that is easiest for us. Maybe our current roster was more interested in maintaining the status quo during practice and training than they were in making the changes necessary for us to regain our former glory.

It boils down to this. I'm fairly positive that no coach we've had since Fulmer would have us where we are after our start to the season. Maybe it's a sign I've got BVS, or that my bar is just set way too low, but I take that as an encouraging sign and, frankly, it impresses me a little.

 

[99gator]

Here's the thing. I kinda am. I understand that Butch is by no means an acceptable measuring stick, but if he were still our HC (God forbid), would we be 6-5 right now? No.

There's no way he would have been able to make the run we've made since playing you guys. That tells me that Pruitt has our guys taking care of competition that's on our current level. We're beating lower to mid level SEC competition. In the long run, that's not an acceptable ceiling, but for a while now we've been incapable of even that.

I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that the players Pruitt inherited are not the best to run his style of football. So he has to get them to buy into what he's selling until he can recruit the guys he wants. I've seen people post here that players aren't inherited, they're developed. I understand the sentiment, but that's not entirely true.

Coaching can only go so far. I come from an IT background, so let me frame this in those terms. If you wanted to improve how your PC runs and I suggest you can get it done by making a change in the registry, you might need help in how to do that. I tell you to open regedit, but that mucking about in there can make your PC a paperweight. I give you very detailed instructions on how to navigate to your intended destination and what value to change. You, however, only half listen and take no care to follow what I've said. Your PC is trashed because you screwed up the change.

Is that my fault because I didn't "coach" you sufficiently enough? Nope. You were a horrible student.

I'm not saying our players don't want to win, or that they didn't want to at the beginning of the season. I'm saying that it's easier to tend toward laziness and wanting to do things the way that is easiest for us. Maybe our current roster was more interested in maintaining the status quo during practice and training than they were in making the changes necessary for us to regain our former glory.

It boils down to this. I'm fairly positive that no coach we've had since Fulmer would have us where we are after our start to the season. Maybe it's a sign I've got BVS, or that my bar is just set way too low, but I take that as an encouraging sign and, frankly, it impresses me a little.

I get a lot of this. I do.

Step 1 is indeed taking care of business against teams you are supposed to which Tennessee did.

I am not trying to argue one way or another either. For me again, the jury is still out. I'm not going to argue anymore that he isn't the guy. I am just not ready to say he is yet.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

stack up SEC upset wins?

This goes back to setting the bar low. Auburn and Kentucky in 2018, yes. In 2019, all these games they were “underdogs” in was because they started the season 0-2. this isn’t hindsight. I made jokes about people lying that the other team was favored and I needed to run to Vegas. The sad part is I didn’t actually head to Vegas.

in this stretch, you are talking about a soon to be 4-8 South Carolina, a 6-6, 7-5 Kentucky with no QB, a 6-6 Missouri team that lost to Vandy, Kentucky and Wyoming in the same season, a soon to be 3-9 Vanderbilt and UAB.

I’m impressed he didn’t lose the team. I’m impressed that they did come around to playing at a much higher level despite the level of competition. Am I impressed that Tennessee was able to go out and beat these scrubs? No.

It has absolutely nothing to do with setting the bar low. Yes, when Tennessee is strong, they should, with regularity, slaughter teams of this caliber. That, however, is not the scenario that Jeremy Pruitt inherited. At the beginning of his tenure, Tennessee football was, in many respects, at the lowest ebb that I have seen in 52 years of following the Big Orange.

As things now stand, considering attrition and injuries, we still can field only something like 63 scholarship players. After the horrendous start, I believed that, with the youth we had, particularly at offensive tackle, this team would improve over the course of the season, but that we had probably dug too deep of a hole to go bowling.

If this current winning streak in conference play has demonstrated nothing else, this team has grit and mental toughness, something that recent Tennessee teams have lacked. After an 0-2 start, few clear-thinking Tennessee fans would have projected a final conference record of 5-3, but that is precisely the scenario that we currently face and it is one that, unfortunately, we have not come close to achieving in recent years, notwithstanding the 2015 season.

One does not bring a traditional power back from “laughingstock” status to its accustomed place overnight. What Pruitt has done is demonstrate consistent, incremental improvement and that most certainly is, from our perspective, to be applauded. Just how far he can take this program remains anyone’s guess, but he most definitely is slowly but surely turning the “USS Tennessee” into the wind, picking up steam and heading in the right direction.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I get a lot of this. I do.

Step 1 is indeed taking care of business against teams you are supposed to which Tennessee did.

I am not trying to argue one way or another either. For me again, the jury is still out. I'm not going to argue anymore that he isn't the guy. I am just not ready to say he is yet.

There are signs to believe that he’s a good coach. The signs seem to indicate an upward trend. I don’t think he has to win championships to be “the guy” at Tennessee. Just contend. I’ve been critical of my university for this but I believe it’s the truth. That’s why I have said so many times that Mullen should have come to Tennessee he could have been here forever but the lack of championship will get him fired at Florida. Just think if the unthinkable happens and Tennessee beats Florida next year.

 

[nirwin]

None of the wins are super impressive individually, but the fact that we won all of them and got bowl eligible is impressive...sorry, it just is. ESPN's power index thing had us at a 5 percent chance to do that after losing to Georgia. It wasn't easy, it wasn't a foregone conclusion, and it wasn't something that you can say that it should've happened so we shouldn't be impressed.

 

[HalfullVol]

Did @Freak post guidelines that require folks to be drinking or drunk before posting in FF?

 

[volfeeva]

Every time this coaching change thread pops up we are teased with the same worn out over hyped potentials out there. Could somebody explain how Mike Leach became this coaching God that would save us if could get him? Leach barely has an over all winning record every place he's coached. And Gundy.....just like Leach he beats up lesser teams, loses to big time teams and gets lucky to play a bowl game each year. They don't ever win their conference. Do you ever look up and research the names you toss out there that we should be frothing over?

 

[CR-vol]

Agree 100%. Two losses early in the season to cupcakes and a 6-5 record(or assuming we beat Vandy and a bowl game 8-5) does not earn an extension or a bump up in salary. Just does not!

What if some other team were to offer Pruitt a raise? I don't think this will happen but would you be willing to not give him one and see him walk away from what he's started to build?

 

[Vol Main]

Overlooking inexcusably weak performance in the first several games leaves Pruitt still struggling to coach stupid mistakes out of the team. Do I think Pruitt will get that done? Yes. However, after losing loyalty from numerous players on the team at the end of his first year, because of his harsh criticisms, Coach keeps working for incremental improvements, with dedicated support from the entire staff. The players know by this time that they can be a good, winning team -- if they keep working and stop making really dumb mistakes which lose games or make them way too close. Improvement might not be straight line. But there appears to be a growing belief among the players, in their coaches and in themselves. There will be more disappointments. But Pruitt is the kind of hard headed man who will keep coaching his guys how to play well, until they do. jmho

 

[MemphisVol77]

What if some other team were to offer Pruitt a raise? I don't think this will happen but would you be willing to not give him one and see him walk away from what he's started to build?

Yes*.

We'd actually be on the receiving end of a buy out for once. I like our roster allot more now than I did at the end of 2017. We should be able to offer a higher pay grade to the next coach. I don't want our hand forced but anything more than a token 100-200K bump to match his offer shouldn't fly. 5 loss seasons should not be significantly rewarded at UT.

*Unless it was another SEC team offering. Another East team you definately match the offer. The risk of him consistently beating us with another team in the division is greater than the risk of paying too much and having to fire him in a few years.

 

[CR-vol]

Hmmm, interesting. I don't think the "upside" of any potential buyout would cover the sure downside of the disruption to our rebuild. I think it would set us back again.

 

[DaddyChad]

If it makes you feel better, I'm already wrong. Mississippi State is going bowling.

For you kids at home, if you score a potential game tying TD, don't get an unsportsmanlike celebration penalty and move the extra point back 15 yards.

Another tip. As a general rule, don't pretend to be a dog and lift your leg to pee while in the endzone.

Just trying to give back and help the children with some life knowledge

Beating the teams he should.... at least the teams in the SEC he should. That’s a good start with this talent.

 

[Billy Ratliff]

stack up SEC upset wins?

This goes back to setting the bar low. Auburn and Kentucky in 2018, yes. In 2019, all these games they were “underdogs” in was because they started the season 0-2. this isn’t hindsight. I made jokes about people lying that the other team was favored and I needed to run to Vegas. The sad part is I didn’t actually head to Vegas.

in this stretch, you are talking about a soon to be 4-8 South Carolina, a 6-6, 7-5 Kentucky with no QB, a 6-6 Missouri team that lost to Vandy, Kentucky and Wyoming in the same season, a soon to be 3-9 Vanderbilt and UAB.

I’m impressed he didn’t lose the team. I’m impressed that they did come around to playing at a much higher level despite the level of competition. Am I impressed that Tennessee was able to go out and beat these scrubs? No.

Dude....I specifically said they weren’t good teams. They were pretty evenly matched. But statistically the amount of upsets he has in his first two years is notable and a big improvement from his two predecessors.

 

[Vols1891]

I had posted this as a reply in another thread but I think I hit on a few points that are worth discussion in a thread by itself.

Phillip Fulmer - 2 losing seasons in 4 years.
It's been 80+ years since we stooped this low.
Fah'r Fulmer!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Lane Kiffin - 7-6 Meh... fly by night
He embarrassed us nationally, sabotaged recruiting, and left us with violations. Can't let that embarrassment happen again....

D. Dooley - New historic Lows.
Two losing seasons in 3 years(or was it all 3...?). Top that Fulmer! 20+ year win streaks against Vanderbilt & Kentucky snapped in back to back years.
Fah'r Dooley!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Butch Jones - Another Historic Low
Starts off decent and benefits from historic legacy recruiting classes. Quickly exposed as out of his element with a plethora of strategy & player relation disasters. Becomes condescending and patronizing towards media and our fan base.
Engineers our historic worst 8 loss season.
4-8, take that Fulmer & Dooley
Fah'r Butch. Can't let that happen again...

Jim Pruitt - New Historic Low/s?
5-5 and then wow does the other shoe drop hard for a 5-7 first season.
6 of those losses by +25 points.
Now possibly inline for yet another new historic low, a 1-3 win season.
Fah'r Pruitt!!??? Can't let this happen again..???



To everyone criticising the notion of giving Pruitt more time; How in the world does firing our 5th coach in this downward spiral after 2years, a shorter leash than his predecessors received, break the cycle of stooping to new historic lows?
We'll fire a NC winning Tennessee blue blood. It seems virtually no resume of Power5/SEC success can provide enough job security to sustain two losing seasons in a 4year period.

We tried unproven SEC royalty out of desperation after Kiffin ghosted us. Now we know better. Blood lines be daMned, a coach with little experience and a losing record below the Power 5 isn't an option.

A coach with a half way decent track record below the Power 5 will definitely be run out after sub .500 season if he maxes at 8/9 wins and loses to inferior talent.


Aside from some White Night savior like Urban Myer(which just isn't gonna happen) publicly proclaiming he wants the job; how does it make sense to fire Pruitt now?
What would it take to get a plan A or plan B HC that might be able to pull off the rebuild? Like Mike Leach, Gundy, or Les Miles?
I'm not asking to vent and pontificate over what might have, could have, should have happened in a 2017 hypothetical during/after the Currie to Fulmer transition.
I'm in the present here and now. Would one of those type coaches even be willing to take the job knowing that 8/9 wins isn't enough if they don't win the SEC East within 5 years and they have a losing season?
Would they take the job knowing that we are severely lacking in leadership from our upperclassmen and most the ones producing will be gone next year. J. Jennings, Calloway, D. Taylor, Bituli, all gone.
Knowing that it is inevitable some of our blue chip underclassmen will transfer when the coach that recruited them leaves.

How much would we have to overpay to get a coach with Power5 experience to take over? And how do we know we're not bringing in a new stooge? I personaly don't think Gundy or Leach would better 8/9 wins and am skeptical of how Miles would perform.

No, just not losing to the Sun Belt and beating Group of 5 teams like BYU would not be enough. Within 5 years we'd push them out because 8/9 wins and 3rd in the East isn't enough........ The outrage that has led to our coaching carousel is because we are Tennessee and we expect to compete for championships. At best we're placated for a few years and then it's time for a coaching search if we're not in realistic contention.

I think Pruitt & his staff need at least 1more year and should receive it.
I have several reasons for thinking this but I'll keep it as brief as I can as this is a long post.

1. Chaney has a proven record of notable progress (significantly improving yards & ppg) his second year when he switches teams. Several regulars posted links to very informed and statistical breakdowns during the off-season.
2. Pruitt has never had to build an elite defense. He has inherited rosters full of 4/5 star 3rd-5th year players and proved he can excel with 3 different programs. He is 1 1/2 recruiting classes away from having that kind of talent and experience at UT.
3. I believe Fulmer & Pruitt knew we needed a complete rebuild to change our culture and that our fan base is more surprised by our struggles than they are.
With the amount of upper classmen we've had hit the portal, Sapp going Pro, players leaving the team after ridiculing us on social meeting, Ignont being left behind (unannounced until the last second) on an SEC roadtrip; ......

You can't convince me that we are not conscientiously tearing down our team to rebuild the culture.
I think Pruitt severely overestimated how fast he could push the culture change while trying to compensate for our OL&DL deficiencies & the decision to go with JG this season blew up in his face to create a perfect storm.
The dumb Alabama hillbilly has just learned enough to know he can't disparage our team and say "I'll get 25more players in here that are willing to play the right way".


I'll stop explaining why I don't think Pruitt should be fired before the end of 2020, my arguments won't change anybody's mind.

What I want to know is how the people that think it's unreasonable to give Pruitt more time are proposing anything more realistic than watching our proud program stoop to new lows and embarrassments with yet another coaching search?

Dooley didn’t blow a 20+ year winning streak to Vanderbilt. That happened in 2005 under Fulmer.