Realistic options with our HC (Long Post)

[MemphisVol77]

I had posted this as a reply in another thread but I think I hit on a few points that are worth discussion in a thread by itself.

Phillip Fulmer - 2 losing seasons in 4 years.
It's been 80+ years since we stooped this low.
Fah'r Fulmer!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Lane Kiffin - 7-6 Meh... fly by night
He embarrassed us nationally, sabotaged recruiting, and left us with violations. Can't let that embarrassment happen again....

D. Dooley - New historic Lows.
Two losing seasons in 3 years(or was it all 3...?). Top that Fulmer! 20+ year win streaks against Vanderbilt & Kentucky snapped in back to back years.
Fah'r Dooley!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Butch Jones - Another Historic Low
Starts off decent and benefits from historic legacy recruiting classes. Quickly exposed as out of his element with a plethora of strategy & player relation disasters. Becomes condescending and patronizing towards media and our fan base.
Engineers our historic worst 8 loss season.
4-8, take that Fulmer & Dooley
Fah'r Butch. Can't let that happen again...

Jim Pruitt - New Historic Low/s?
5-5 and then wow does the other shoe drop hard for a 5-7 first season.
6 of those losses by +25 points.
Now possibly inline for yet another new historic low, a 1-3 win season.
Fah'r Pruitt!!??? Can't let this happen again..???



To everyone criticising the notion of giving Pruitt more time; How in the world does firing our 5th coach in this downward spiral after 2years, a shorter leash than his predecessors received, break the cycle of stooping to new historic lows?
We'll fire a NC winning Tennessee blue blood. It seems virtually no resume of Power5/SEC success can provide enough job security to sustain two losing seasons in a 4year period.

We tried unproven SEC royalty out of desperation after Kiffin ghosted us. Now we know better. Blood lines be daMned, a coach with little experience and a losing record below the Power 5 isn't an option.

A coach with a half way decent track record below the Power 5 will definitely be run out after sub .500 season if he maxes at 8/9 wins and loses to inferior talent.


Aside from some White Night savior like Urban Myer(which just isn't gonna happen) publicly proclaiming he wants the job; how does it make sense to fire Pruitt now?
What would it take to get a plan A or plan B HC that might be able to pull off the rebuild? Like Mike Leach, Gundy, or Les Miles?
I'm not asking to vent and pontificate over what might have, could have, should have happened in a 2017 hypothetical during/after the Currie to Fulmer transition.
I'm in the present here and now. Would one of those type coaches even be willing to take the job knowing that 8/9 wins isn't enough if they don't win the SEC East within 5 years and they have a losing season?
Would they take the job knowing that we are severely lacking in leadership from our upperclassmen and most the ones producing will be gone next year. J. Jennings, Calloway, D. Taylor, Bituli, all gone.
Knowing that it is inevitable some of our blue chip underclassmen will transfer when the coach that recruited them leaves.

How much would we have to overpay to get a coach with Power5 experience to take over? And how do we know we're not bringing in a new stooge? I personaly don't think Gundy or Leach would better 8/9 wins and am skeptical of how Miles would perform.

No, just not losing to the Sun Belt and beating Group of 5 teams like BYU would not be enough. Within 5 years we'd push them out because 8/9 wins and 3rd in the East isn't enough........ The outrage that has led to our coaching carousel is because we are Tennessee and we expect to compete for championships. At best we're placated for a few years and then it's time for a coaching search if we're not in realistic contention.

I think Pruitt & his staff need at least 1more year and should receive it.
I have several reasons for thinking this but I'll keep it as brief as I can as this is a long post.

1. Chaney has a proven record of notable progress (significantly improving yards & ppg) his second year when he switches teams. Several regulars posted links to very informed and statistical breakdowns during the off-season.
2. Pruitt has never had to build an elite defense. He has inherited rosters full of 4/5 star 3rd-5th year players and proved he can excel with 3 different programs. He is 1 1/2 recruiting classes away from having that kind of talent and experience at UT.
3. I believe Fulmer & Pruitt knew we needed a complete rebuild to change our culture and that our fan base is more surprised by our struggles than they are.
With the amount of upper classmen we've had hit the portal, Sapp going Pro, players leaving the team after ridiculing us on social meeting, Ignont being left behind (unannounced until the last second) on an SEC roadtrip; ......

You can't convince me that we are not conscientiously tearing down our team to rebuild the culture.
I think Pruitt severely overestimated how fast he could push the culture change while trying to compensate for our OL&DL deficiencies & the decision to go with JG this season blew up in his face to create a perfect storm.
The dumb Alabama hillbilly has just learned enough to know he can't disparage our team and say "I'll get 25more players in here that are willing to play the right way".


I'll stop explaining why I don't think Pruitt should be fired before the end of 2020, my arguments won't change anybody's mind.

What I want to know is how the people that think it's unreasonable to give Pruitt more time are proposing anything more realistic than watching our proud program stoop to new lows and embarrassments with yet another coaching search?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

If the goal is to go cheap for another bargain bin hire, we need to give Pruitt 4 years..

If we are made aware through the agent grapevine that a proven winner is interested in TN (For example, Bob Stoops), then the plug should be pulled..

 

[Eastknox865]

Most fans don't understand that coaches can't turn water into wine. Watching the games the most talented players are freshman. Yes you can fire him bring in a new guy teach the team another playbook say give it a year and hope. Leave the man alone he is trying to fix something that has taken 10+ years to create. I know it's ugly but firing Pruitt would be a mistake. This is a ugly rebuilding situation just accept it.

 

[99gator]

When you ain’t the guy, you ain’t the guy.

He ain’t the guy.

Everyone goes through the same “set the program back” mantra and I get the idea.

But, I think most people have it right. The wrong guy sets you back more than finding a new one.

These coaching hires have done more damage to Tennessee’s program than probation did to Florida in the 80’s

 

[JoAllan]

“To everyone criticising the notion of giving Pruitt more time; How in the world does firing our 5th coach in this downward spiral after 2years, a shorter leash than his predecessors received, break the cycle of stooping to new historic lows?”

It may not, but does continuing to lose help anything?

Does not improving help?

Does a team lacking discipline, lacking motivation, lacking basic assignment knowledge skills help?

Could a new coach even in the mists of a bunch of bad and ugly hires and fires fix things......it certainly “could” happen and could help.......but what IS going on certainly isn’t helping anything.

 

[MemphisVol77]

When you ain’t the guy, you ain’t the guy.

He ain’t the guy.

Everyone goes through the same “set the program back” mantra and I get the idea.

But, I think most people have it right. The wrong guy sets you back more than finding a new one.

These coaching hires have done more damage to Tennessee’s program than probation did to Florida in the 80’s

I meant anyone besides a lizard tell me.....

I still think it's probably best to wait until the end of 2020 but yeah, it's tough to see any "it" or the "man" factor. I didn't address that and it's getting hard to see it 'developing'.

He's actually got allot in common with Guarantano. All the tools for success seem to be there, surrounded by talent, has shown flashes, but just keeps underperforming....

 

[Volanta]

Ppl are being irrationally emotional. Ya know, I always asked myself, “why is it that coaches make all this money for doing something as simple as leading a sports team?”

Now I see why. It’s because they have a stomach that most don’t have. They can see the long term vision and stick to the plan. Unmoved by illegitimate noise, like the emotional folks on this board. I truly get it. It’s like a form of hazard pay. “We know the weight of the world will be on your shoulders and everyone will literally hate you and your kids will have to live in a community where people hate their dad and make fun of him so here’s millions of dollars a year.”

Here’s a question I pose to volnation:
If it is as easy as you say it is why hasn’t it been done?

Don’t give me the standard “because they're stupid,” answer either. If you work 60+ hours a week only doing football. You are with the team everyday. I’m pretty sure you know who can legitimately do what and who cannot.

 

[Volle]

I think we as fans need to lower our expectations for a while, and let Pruitt see what he can do with it for another year. At this point there aren't any good options.

 

[Dudleys87]

Because firing and hiring has worked so well...

Stop expecting to be champions over night.

 

[MemphisVol77]

Ppl are being irrationally emotional. Ya know, I always asked myself, “why is it that coaches make all this money for doing something as simple as leading a sports team?”

Now I see why. It’s because they have a stomach that most don’t have. They can see the long term vision and stick to the plan. Unmoved by illegitimate noise, like the emotional folks on this board. I truly get it. It’s like a form of hazard pay. “We know the weight of the world will be on your shoulders and everyone will literally hate you and your kids will have to live in a community where people hate their dad and make fun of him so here’s millions of dollars a year.”

Here’s a question I pose to volnation:
If it is as easy as you say it is why hasn’t it been done?

Don’t give me the standard “because their stupid,” answer either. If you work 60+ hours a week only doing football. You are with the team everyday. I’m pretty sure you know who can legitimately do what and who cannot.

I think we as fans need to lower our expectations for a while, and let Pruitt see what he can do with it for another year. At this point I'm just going to watch good CFB and not worry how good/bad we do and hope he can close out the year strong and pull a top-20 class.

I guess ultimately I'm more concerned about the long term damage another disaster of a coaching search could do to our program than another losing season & think our roster would be in better shape for someone else to take over going into 2021 than 2020.

I know it should be absurd to be worried about a coaching search but you just can't make a deal with your next HC ringer and then fire your current HC. Just not how it works. We pretty much thought things couldn't get any worse after we fired our last 4 coaches, that our institutional appeal would attract big names and any halfway competent coach would work out.........

5th times gotta be a charm

 

[GameTime]

Looking back at the list of former saviors of our football program is very eye opening...Each new coach said he had the answers to fix all of our woes....They didn't, or weren't given time to find out....

Yes, we suck for now, and will suck for a lot longer....Just the way it is folks. Maybe in time, things may turn around, but to keep firing every new coach is ridiculous.

 

[molsen81]

What the heck....if you accept this crap then give Pruitt a 10 year extension. Maybe if we’re lucky we’ll get invited to the Liberty Bowl in the distant future. Man, that would be awesome!

 

[UTK]

Our only hope is that Pruitt gets better as a coach and our players get better in a hurry. That's all

 

[VolArmy74]

Looking back at the list of former saviors of our football program is very eye opening...Each new coach said he had the answers to fix all of our woes....They didn't, or weren't given time to find out....

Yes, we suck for now, and will suck for a lot longer....Just the way it is folks. Maybe in time, things may turn around, but to keep firing every new coach is ridiculous.

Who here wasn't given enough time? I'll hang up and wait.

 

[Firebirdparts]

Evidently there isn't a grown-up way to have orderly regime change. It does seem that you want to take your time and get somebody good, but rarely does anybody actually do it. Then again, LSU didn't do that, and they're 4th. There's some luck involved.

 

[ThreatLevelOrange]

When you ain’t the guy, you ain’t the guy.

He ain’t the guy.

Everyone goes through the same “set the program back” mantra and I get the idea.

But, I think most people have it right. The wrong guy sets you back more than finding a new one.

These coaching hires have done more damage to Tennessee’s program than probation did to Florida in the 80’s

We have the money to keep making changes, but not an idea what to do. Phil was hired by a Chancellor fired soon thereafter. He likely won’t be allowed to make the next hire. So we have no one in the administration or AD who has success within this area.

 

[Memphisvol87]

Ppl are being irrationally emotional. Ya know, I always asked myself, “why is it that coaches make all this money for doing something as simple as leading a sports team?”

Now I see why. It’s because they have a stomach that most don’t have. They can see the long term vision and stick to the plan. Unmoved by illegitimate noise, like the emotional folks on this board. I truly get it. It’s like a form of hazard pay. “We know the weight of the world will be on your shoulders and everyone will literally hate you and your kids will have to live in a community where people hate their dad and make fun of him so here’s millions of dollars a year.”

Here’s a question I pose to volnation:
If it is as easy as you say it is why hasn’t it been done?

Don’t give me the standard “because their stupid,” answer either. If you work 60+ hours a week only doing football. You are with the team everyday. I’m pretty sure you know who can legitimately do what and who cannot.

Coaches make the money because of how much revenue football brings in. Coaches in smaller conferences and schools don’t make as much because ... that’s right, there isn’t as much revenue to justify it. This is a brand worth hundreds of millions if not a billion when it’s firing on all cylinders .

Like Alabama and Clemson now, we saw power t merchandise all over the country.

The fatal flaw is being cheap and trying to switch to an academic program. Basically admin wanted us to be Vandy so now we are Vandy.

You get what you pay for, and we haven’t invested in winning football in over a decade.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

When you ain’t the guy, you ain’t the guy.

He ain’t the guy.

Everyone goes through the same “set the program back” mantra and I get the idea.

But, I think most people have it right. The wrong guy sets you back more than finding a new one.

These coaching hires have done more damage to Tennessee’s program than probation did to Florida in the 80’s

Truth.

 

[SDV]

Jim Pruitt? Who?

 

[Catbone]

Because firing and hiring has worked so well...

Stop expecting to be champions over night.

How about improvement instead of constant regression?

 

[G8rh8r]

How many Fortune 500 companies retain the CEO after miserable earnings performances over the course of 1.5 years?

 

[Memphisvol87]

I’ll add that this is started when Fulmer bottomed out. It was inevitable. Truth is Saban will bottom out if he stays long enough.
We went for the opposite of Fulmer for the first hire, which when you say it out loud is ridiculous. “ we want the opposite of one of our best coaches in history”. But the truth is they wanted the opposite of a 2008 fulmer. Which is why we passed on Gary Patterson, which was a huge mistake.

Yes Kiffin was great that year for energy, I was in school and loved it. But that was a big risk handing the keys to the kingdom to such a young reckless coach.
Timing and decision making has been very bad since fulmer, we pretty much panic and hire based on misguided urgency.
I will say that fulmer, hiring Pruitt at the time was a pretty solid decision. Not an A hire, but it was based on a history of being at winners, he can recruit like hell, and the staff we have “looks” to be a solid football staff.
This all seems to not be working for whatever reason, not sure if it’s just bad players or what but we are at historic red flag moments that say Pruitt has lost control. What fulmer does this year will determine his legacy as AD. I think fulmer is true Tennessee fan like most of us so let’s hope he is using all his power and resources to make sure we succeed with or without Pruitt.

 

[sechamp2012]

If you can't inspire the players you inherited to mesh with the great players you recruited. Guess what, give him 5 years and at best we will be a 500 team Great HC's can motivate the un-motivated. Are the glue that keeps the team together.
CJP has had all self-motivated players all his life at Hoover HS were it recruits itself at Bama, At Florida State and at UGA. He has been under great HC's that motivated inspired and did all the little things,
He is not a HC for a rebuilding program he is not a HC period all the intangibles are MIA.
I'm with the parties that say if you cannot hire a proven home run HC that has had a Phoneix experience. If the administration is not behind a multi-million program then just become an Academic doormat like Vandy and play for State championship each year.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Between GA State and BYU weeks, all we heard was how there were signs of improvement all over the field. Now that we've played a good but not great SEC team, everyone can see that the signs of improvement were just an illusion aided by a weak opponent. Now, it's all about staying the course, flipping the roster, changing the culture, all things that are very subjective and could leave this discussion unresolved for years as fans battle back and forth among themselves over perceived signs of improvement, regression, or stagnation. The only objective measuring sticks that we have are the win/loss record and recruiting. If a staff is not delivering wins and elite recruits, then it is incumbent on the head coach to advance a vision and convince the fan base that his plan will work. The easiest way a head coach can sell his vision is to be able to point to examples of where he's done it before. Saying 'give me five classes to get my guys and then we'll show you something' doesn't cut it. Anyone can say that and if you don't have a track record as a program builder it just comes off as 'leave me alone for 5 years and you'll see if I was worth keeping around.' We didn't hire a guy who's built programs. We didn't hire a guy with a vision. We hired a guy who has been around, but did not built, three very good football programs. Basically, we hired someone who knows what a championship football team should look like. That's not a lot to have faith in, especially when you start your second season the way Pruitt has. My position is that people with less experience in new positions should be on a shorter leash than people who have done it before. If three years was long enough to figure out Dooley, who had head coaching experience and went to a bowl in year one, then two years is enough to figure out Pruitt if the objective measurements of wins/losses and recruiting are clear.

 

[ThreatLevelOrange]

Between GA State and BYU weeks, all we heard was how there were signs of improvement all over the field. Now that we've played a good but not great SEC team, everyone can see that the signs of improvement were just an illusion aided by a weak opponent. Now, it's all about staying the course, flipping the roster, changing the culture, all things that are very subjective and could leave this discussion unresolved for years as fans battle back and forth among themselves over perceived signs of improvement, regression, or stagnation. The only objective measuring sticks that we have are the win/loss record and recruiting. If a staff is not delivering wins and elite recruits, then it is incumbent on the head coach to advance a vision and convince the fan base that his plan will work. The easiest way a head coach can sell his vision is to be able to point to examples of where he's done it before. Saying 'give me five classes to get my guys and then we'll show you something' doesn't cut it. Anyone can say that and if you don't have a track record as a program builder it just comes off as 'leave me alone for 5 years and you'll see if I was worth keeping around.' We didn't hire a guy who's built programs. We didn't hire a guy with a vision. We hired a guy who has been around, but did not built, three very good football programs. Basically, we hired someone who knows what a championship football team should look like. That's not a lot to have faith in, especially when you start your second season the way Pruitt has. My position is that people with less experience in new positions should be on a shorter leash than people who have done it before. If three years was long enough to figure out Dooley, who had head coaching experience and went to a bowl in year one, then two years is enough to figure out Pruitt if the objective measurements of wins/losses and recruiting are clear.

Correct. There’s going to have to be more subjective reasons to keep him beyond wins and losses.