Realistic options with our HC (Long Post)

[BigOrangeTrain]

No, Currie was personal friends with Schiano. He had an agenda all along.

UT is a very successful program financially.

Why do they continue to hire people with no experience or bad experience?

They don't even try to get a successful person.

How do You know they havent interviewed quite a few successful HCs? We fans dont know who has or hasnt been interviewed. So what if, say since 2009, successful HCs have been interviewed but turned us down? Is that necessarily the fault of the AD?

 

[hog88]

I really believe it would be best for the program if he did. But he certainly has a lot to prove and massive amount of improving to do.

It would be terrific for the program if Pruitt can turn it around, I'm his biggest supporter in that effort.

 

[Ten_Titans]

Shorter leash? What are you talking about?

We are about to be 1-7. None of the other coaches ever went 1-7 at any point, and if they did they should have been fired then too.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

It would be terrific for the program if Pruitt can turn it around, I'm his biggest supporter in that effort.

Agreed.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Shorter leash? What are you talking about?

We are about to be 1-7. None of the other coaches ever went 1-7 at any point, and if they did they should have been fired then too.

Yeah lets bury the program even further by firing a HC in the middle of the season. Lose the recruiting class, especially Bailey. You think things cannot get worse? Keep dreaming because they could.

 

[Ten_Titans]

Yeah lets bury the program even further by firing a HC in the middle of the season. Lose the recruiting class, especially Bailey. You think things cannot get worse? Keep dreaming because they could.

I mean No, I don't think they can. I think a decent coach beats Georgia State and UTC with MTSU's roster. And I think a Nigerian scammer with a speech impediment can recruit players as good as what MTSU has to UT.

So how exactly is that worse?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I mean No, I don't think they can. I think a decent coach beats Georgia State and UTC with MTSU's roster. And I think a Nigerian scammer with a speech impediment can recruit players as good as what MTSU has to UT.

So how exactly is that worse?

It can get much worse. Like I said, Pruitt has Bailey and some other good recruits. Also, we are in on some other big time guys. Now, it doesnt seem like we will land any of those other guys but who knows? I would be willing to bet most didnt think we would land guys like Crouch, Gray and Henry T but we did. You want to see worse? Let TN slip to recruiting in the 30-40 range. Then you will see much worse.

Also, regardless of what some want to accept, these players have not done their part on the field. At some point they have to execute in order for the team to be successful.

 

[Ten_Titans]

It can get much worse. Like I said, Pruitt has Bailey and some other good recruits. Also, we are in on some other big time guys. Now, it doesnt seem like we will land any of those other guys but who knows? I would be willing to bet most didnt think we would land guys like Crouch, Gray and Henry T but we did.

Also, regardless of what some want to accept, these players have not done their part on the field. At some point they have to execute in order for the team to be successful.

Yeah... I'm not blaming the players in year two. Sorry. Coaches don't find players that can execute they create them.

We aren't losing because of size or speed. We are losing because no one on either side of the ball knows what they are doing. That's all coaching.

As far as Bailey... Have you followed his season so far? How about the three QBs Pruitt has hand picked so far? The idea of fixing this by once again trying to find a coach that doesn't suck is far more realistic than putting all your hopes and dreams on HB.

We can get Crouch's and Gray's and HT's every class. The problem is we obviously won't after a 2 win season, and even if we did, we don't have anyone here to help them.

 

[VolForLife83]

It's simple to see. Pruitts guys are promising. The hold-overs are holding us down. He needs more time. Period

 

[VolRoger]

Plus Meyer would have to know that he only has about 14 games before he is judged and lcould be on the hot seat. I mean some fans want to believe that its all about money and its not.

Don't you believe that Meyer would get much longer leeway from the fanbase than any coach we've hired since Fulmer due to his past successes at the 3 schools he's head coached? I don't think he would have the leash that Majors had because those were different times altogether with very different recruiting rules, but I have to believe he would get as much time as Butch Jones. I usually agree with you BigOrangeTrain, but I'm just not seeing that factor in Jeremy Pruitt that gives me confidence he can inspire his players and give hope to the fanbase, especially one that has been so divided since middle of the last decade. I hate that because I want to see JP succeed here.

 

[VolArmy74]

Don't you believe that Meyer would get much longer leeway from the fanbase than any coach we've hired since Fulmer due to his past successes at the 3 schools he's head coached? I don't think he would have the leash that Majors had because those were different times altogether with very different recruiting rules, but I have to believe he would get as much time as Butch Jones. I usually agree with you BigOrangeTrain, but I'm just not seeing that factor in Jeremy Pruitt that gives me confidence he can inspire his players and give hope to the fanbase, especially one that has been so divided since middle of the last decade. I hate that because I want to see JP succeed here.

This is what no one seems to get. Pruitt is unproven. The only look we have of him so far is abject failure. With others, we know for sure without any doubt that they turn programs around. Based on his past history, Urban would probably be 10-4 in his first 14 games here, at worst. But even if he wasn't, we'd know what was coming. Same with any other established coach that has turned multiple programs around. They get more lead because we know what the do works. Instead we see Pruitt going backwards and making indefensible decisions.

 

[Eastknox865]

I keep hearing that our best players are the freshmen. Maybe I’m not seeing something the rest of you are, but when I start trying to name our best players right now I think of JJ, Trey, Chandler, Bituli, etc. We have some good freshmen, but are they really the best talent we have right now? Are they really better than some of the upperclassmen? Or are we just rationalizing to find some reason to hope? I hope you guys can convince me we really do have better talent ready to move up.

My belief is that the main reason we suck so hard right now is because our quarterback play is sadly lacking. True, we have other problems, but, IMHO, poor QB play is at the top of the list .

Until that changes, we’ll still suck even if we do have good young talent.

JJ is one of the best true but only if he could throw himself passes. Trey missed basically the entire season with blood clots so yes very talented he really hasn't played much. Chandler hasn't broken a takle since high school talented yes. Bituli just had knee surgery not 100 percent yet. JG is our quarterback. Warrior can't cover a penis with a condom. So those are our upper classmen. Any other questions?

 

[MemphisVol77]

Bump,
That idiot OP who called our coach 'Jim Pruitt' takes the cake for biggest idiot in this thread. Let's not make fun of him too bad though.

So it's obvious Pruitt is here through 2020 barring some kind of major scandal.

What should Pruitt's outlook and expectations for 2020 be?
I say anything less than 8-4 should put him on the 2021 hot seat.
If we go 7-5, getting blown out by AL, GA, FL, & OK with an upset to a team we're favored against for 5 losses, then his 2021 seat should be on fire.

I feel better about Pruitt than I did a few months ago, but the expectation should be getting us to a minimum standard of 8wins and competing for the East 3/4 years. I'm elated he's turned this season around but I don't believe it should buy him any security.

He needs to have us convinced we're on the cusp of competing for the East by next year's conclusion, believing he can do it in 2021

 

[JoAllan]

I think Pruitt, the entire staff and all the players have really gotten things turned around. I’m also very proud of them and for them for becoming bowl eligible.

That said, this season has still been an under achievement. Last season was an under achievement. I think next season he really needs to get this team to 8-4 or better (regular season)......I also think he will (I thought 8-4 this year too....preseason).

Now that said, If Tennessee goes 7-5 while not losing any “bad ones” and maybe picking up a “decent to good win” I doubt he will be on the hot seat much........certainly by the fans, but I’d say he was safe for another year.

Winning a bowl game will help everything.

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

I had posted this as a reply in another thread but I think I hit on a few points that are worth discussion in a thread by itself.

Phillip Fulmer - 2 losing seasons in 4 years.
It's been 80+ years since we stooped this low.
Fah'r Fulmer!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Lane Kiffin - 7-6 Meh... fly by night
He embarrassed us nationally, sabotaged recruiting, and left us with violations. Can't let that embarrassment happen again....

D. Dooley - New historic Lows.
Two losing seasons in 3 years(or was it all 3...?). Top that Fulmer! 20+ year win streaks against Vanderbilt & Kentucky snapped in back to back years.
Fah'r Dooley!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Butch Jones - Another Historic Low
Starts off decent and benefits from historic legacy recruiting classes. Quickly exposed as out of his element with a plethora of strategy & player relation disasters. Becomes condescending and patronizing towards media and our fan base.
Engineers our historic worst 8 loss season.
4-8, take that Fulmer & Dooley
Fah'r Butch. Can't let that happen again...

Jim Pruitt - New Historic Low/s?
5-5 and then wow does the other shoe drop hard for a 5-7 first season.
6 of those losses by +25 points.
Now possibly inline for yet another new historic low, a 1-3 win season.
Fah'r Pruitt!!??? Can't let this happen again..???



To everyone criticising the notion of giving Pruitt more time; How in the world does firing our 5th coach in this downward spiral after 2years, a shorter leash than his predecessors received, break the cycle of stooping to new historic lows?
We'll fire a NC winning Tennessee blue blood. It seems virtually no resume of Power5/SEC success can provide enough job security to sustain two losing seasons in a 4year period.

We tried unproven SEC royalty out of desperation after Kiffin ghosted us. Now we know better. Blood lines be daMned, a coach with little experience and a losing record below the Power 5 isn't an option.

A coach with a half way decent track record below the Power 5 will definitely be run out after sub .500 season if he maxes at 8/9 wins and loses to inferior talent.


Aside from some White Night savior like Urban Myer(which just isn't gonna happen) publicly proclaiming he wants the job; how does it make sense to fire Pruitt now?
What would it take to get a plan A or plan B HC that might be able to pull off the rebuild? Like Mike Leach, Gundy, or Les Miles?
I'm not asking to vent and pontificate over what might have, could have, should have happened in a 2017 hypothetical during/after the Currie to Fulmer transition.
I'm in the present here and now. Would one of those type coaches even be willing to take the job knowing that 8/9 wins isn't enough if they don't win the SEC East within 5 years and they have a losing season?
Would they take the job knowing that we are severely lacking in leadership from our upperclassmen and most the ones producing will be gone next year. J. Jennings, Calloway, D. Taylor, Bituli, all gone.
Knowing that it is inevitable some of our blue chip underclassmen will transfer when the coach that recruited them leaves.

How much would we have to overpay to get a coach with Power5 experience to take over? And how do we know we're not bringing in a new stooge? I personaly don't think Gundy or Leach would better 8/9 wins and am skeptical of how Miles would perform.

No, just not losing to the Sun Belt and beating Group of 5 teams like BYU would not be enough. Within 5 years we'd push them out because 8/9 wins and 3rd in the East isn't enough........ The outrage that has led to our coaching carousel is because we are Tennessee and we expect to compete for championships. At best we're placated for a few years and then it's time for a coaching search if we're not in realistic contention.

I think Pruitt & his staff need at least 1more year and should receive it.
I have several reasons for thinking this but I'll keep it as brief as I can as this is a long post.

1. Chaney has a proven record of notable progress (significantly improving yards & ppg) his second year when he switches teams. Several regulars posted links to very informed and statistical breakdowns during the off-season.
2. Pruitt has never had to build an elite defense. He has inherited rosters full of 4/5 star 3rd-5th year players and proved he can excel with 3 different programs. He is 1 1/2 recruiting classes away from having that kind of talent and experience at UT.
3. I believe Fulmer & Pruitt knew we needed a complete rebuild to change our culture and that our fan base is more surprised by our struggles than they are.
With the amount of upper classmen we've had hit the portal, Sapp going Pro, players leaving the team after ridiculing us on social meeting, Ignont being left behind (unannounced until the last second) on an SEC roadtrip; ......

You can't convince me that we are not conscientiously tearing down our team to rebuild the culture.
I think Pruitt severely overestimated how fast he could push the culture change while trying to compensate for our OL&DL deficiencies & the decision to go with JG this season blew up in his face to create a perfect storm.
The dumb Alabama hillbilly has just learned enough to know he can't disparage our team and say "I'll get 25more players in here that are willing to play the right way".


I'll stop explaining why I don't think Pruitt should be fired before the end of 2020, my arguments won't change anybody's mind.

What I want to know is how the people that think it's unreasonable to give Pruitt more time are proposing anything more realistic than watching our proud program stoop to new lows and embarrassments with yet another coaching search?

Wow this aged badly

 

[Billy Ratliff]

This is what no one seems to get. Pruitt is unproven. The only look we have of him so far is abject failure. With others, we know for sure without any doubt that they turn programs around. Based on his past history, Urban would probably be 10-4 in his first 14 games here, at worst. But even if he wasn't, we'd know what was coming. Same with any other established coach that has turned multiple programs around. They get more lead because we know what the do works. Instead we see Pruitt going backwards and making indefensible decisions.

Urban would’ve gone 10-4 with last year’s UT roster? Holy fanboy....

 

[Billy Ratliff]

I think Pruitt, the entire staff and all the players have really gotten things turned around. I’m also very proud of them and for them for becoming bowl eligible.

That said, this season has still been an under achievement. Last season was an under achievement. I think next season he really needs to get this team to 8-4 or better (regular season)......I also think he will (I thought 8-4 this year too....preseason).

Now that said, If Tennessee goes 7-5 while not losing any “bad ones” and maybe picking up a “decent to good win” I doubt he will be on the hot seat much........certainly by the fans, but I’d say he was safe for another year.

Winning a bowl game will help everything.

Well....no. Last season was pretty much par - beat two top 25 teams as underdogs, got killed in two bad performances to close the season. This year, the first 3 games we underachieved and underperformed. The remainder of the year has been a consistent display of an improving and maturing team.

 

[sonofUT62]

Well....no. Last season was pretty much par - beat two top 25 teams as underdogs, got killed in two bad performances to close the season. This year, the first 3 games we underachieved and underperformed. The remainder of the year has been a consistent display of an improving and maturing team.

We underachieved in a 40+ point blowout where we played over 60 players including a good sized number of walk ons? Interesting.

 

[davethevol]

I think next year is where we truly find out how good he is. Like everyone else, I’ve had my doubts and thought after the first few games he should be let go. Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed and we kept him. I’m now leaning towards we most likely have a really good football coach who is learning on the job and is making mistakes that he will fix. There is no silliness with CJP. He lives, eats and sleeps football. He’s an old-style coach similar to Fulmer and Majors.

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

I think next year is where we truly find out how good he is. Like everyone else, I’ve had my doubts and thought after the first few games he should be let go. Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed and we kept him. I’m now leaning towards we most likely have a really good football coach who is learning on the job and is making mistakes that he will fix. There is no silliness with CJP. He lives, eats and sleeps football. He’s an old-style coach similar to Fulmer and Majors.

He reminds me a whole lot of Johnny Majors I think Tennessee will continue the strides they made in the last 7 games of 2019 by going 9-3 in 2020

 

[Billy Ratliff]

We underachieved in a 40+ point blowout where we played over 60 players including a good sized number of walk ons? Interesting.

Are you really trying to count UTC?

 

[Billy Ratliff]

When you ain’t the guy, you ain’t the guy.

He ain’t the guy.

Everyone goes through the same “set the program back” mantra and I get the idea.

But, I think most people have it right. The wrong guy sets you back more than finding a new one.

These coaching hires have done more damage to Tennessee’s program than probation did to Florida in the 80’s

So is he the guy? I’d say 3 wks into yr 2 was likely too soon to tell.

 

[sonofUT62]

Are you really trying to count UTC?[/QUOTE

Your exact quote was the “This year the first 3 games “....Yes or no?

 

[Billy Ratliff]

Between GA State and BYU weeks, all we heard was how there were signs of improvement all over the field. Now that we've played a good but not great SEC team, everyone can see that the signs of improvement were just an illusion aided by a weak opponent. Now, it's all about staying the course, flipping the roster, changing the culture, all things that are very subjective and could leave this discussion unresolved for years as fans battle back and forth among themselves over perceived signs of improvement, regression, or stagnation. The only objective measuring sticks that we have are the win/loss record and recruiting. If a staff is not delivering wins and elite recruits, then it is incumbent on the head coach to advance a vision and convince the fan base that his plan will work. The easiest way a head coach can sell his vision is to be able to point to examples of where he's done it before. Saying 'give me five classes to get my guys and then we'll show you something' doesn't cut it. Anyone can say that and if you don't have a track record as a program builder it just comes off as 'leave me alone for 5 years and you'll see if I was worth keeping around.' We didn't hire a guy who's built programs. We didn't hire a guy with a vision. We hired a guy who has been around, but did not built, three very good football programs. Basically, we hired someone who knows what a championship football team should look like. That's not a lot to have faith in, especially when you start your second season the way Pruitt has. My position is that people with less experience in new positions should be on a shorter leash than people who have done it before. If three years was long enough to figure out Dooley, who had head coaching experience and went to a bowl in year one, then two years is enough to figure out Pruitt if the objective measurements of wins/losses and recruiting are clear.

And there was a ton of improvement that was obvious vs BYU. Unfortunately poor QB play and a turrible play by Alontae Taylor cost us the game. Yes the whole team has improved since then. But the major difference in our season comes down to these things:
Improved QB play.
Improved DL play.
Trey, Warrior, Bituli and B. Thompson coming back/the light coming on.

 

[sonofUT62]

Are you really trying to count UTC?

I guess my comment was kind of dick. I guess I was just wondering if you considered that game as underperforming.