Questions from a Millennial?

[Iam4utalways]

he's damned if he do, damned if he don't. could you imagine the uproar if he booted hurd before the season? so he'd be wrong for keeping him on the team and he'd been labeled wrong for booting him... a lot of our brethren seem to have very selective memory lol

There are no right answers when you lose games you "should" win.

Gotta bank the gimmie games and compete for the toss ups.

The S&C got us, due to all the injuries. Fix the injury bug and the back end if the season look different.

As for Hurd, maybe he is a prime example of why he is looking for the 5* heart. I think there are guys that are both 5* talent and heart, just gotta find them and get them.

I have seen 1st hand 5* talent squandered even before they get out of High School, due to them believing they will get a "pass" because of the talent they have.

 

[jakez4ut]

I don't disagree completely. I have come around with his statement earlier this year that "he" was going to now be responsible for the workouts etc., not the team. I had heard he was doing that and didn't realize the depth of the failure until he mentioned it. That is his fault. However, there were injuries this year that conditioning would not fix and also, I don't see "how" he would have booted Hurd before fall camp. That is where he should have been gone. I'm not even sure it was known or at least widely know then Hurd was going to turn out ot be the abject failure that he was.

But, I am not ready to declare the guy a failure just yet. He knew not what he was getting into in the SEC. Majors, Philmer, and to some extent Kiffin knew what was coming. Fooley had an inkling but I don't think he was anywhere near prepared.

This constant comparison of Butch's early years to Philmer's is disingenuous at best and just flat out saying that he is done because the perception that he isn't as good as Phil at this time is ridiculous. Like I said, CBJ started in the basement trying to go 85 floors, CPF started on the 65th or higher.

two things...1. i agree with you on the Phil/Jones comparison. two completely different situations, and Jones' was much worse.
2. Jones, up to this point (now having only his fingerprints on the program), hasn't shown to be more than what he is, even with the talent upgrade, and SECE downgrade.

i answered longsufferingvols question last night. and i think it applies here as well.

there's really, imo, no debate on what Jones has been up to this point. good. not nearly as great as some think he is, has been, or will be. and that's not a crime.

but, this off season he's made changes. he's at the very least recognized things aren't going to get better by standing pat. if you're looking for positives, there it is. doesn't necessarily mean it'll all work out, but he's proved he's not stupid (as some would have you think), he knows what needs to be fixed.

the only question left to answer....can he fix it?

he fixed what Dooley left him. now can he fix what he left himself?

 

[82_VOL_83]

two things...1. i agree with you on the Phil/Jones comparison. two completely different situations, and Jones' was much worse.
2. Jones, up to this point (now having only his fingerprints on the program), hasn't shown to be more than what he is, even with the talent upgrade, and SECE downgrade.

i answered longsufferingvols question last night. and i think it applies here as well.

there's really, imo, no debate on what Jones has been up to this point. good. not nearly as great as some think he is, has been, or will be. and that's not a crime.

but, this off season he's made changes. he's at the very least recognized things aren't going to get better by standing pat. if you're looking for positives, there it is. doesn't necessarily mean it'll all work out, but he's proved he's not stupid (as some would have you think), he knows what needs to be fixed.

the only question left to answer....can he fix it?

he fixed what Dooley left him. now can he fix what he left himself?

Nice.

 

[46yrvol]

In a nutshell I believe the coming season will answer the question. He has built the foundation, now can he complete the structure?

 

[BeecherVol]

It's amazing the mental gymnastics some people will go through to prove Butch is a failure. Your hero inherited a team with 5X the talent that Butch got. Your hero took 6 years to win the SEC Championship. By your definition, he wasted 3 years of Peyton Mannings life. Butch has had to rebuild an 85 man roster from ground zero. Fulmer started on the 65th floor.

I don't like last year. Was it CBJ's fault, mostly. His biggest two failures last year were letting the team run their own conditioning and allowing Hurd to be on the team from day one. Better conditioning and no Hurd and we are having a different discussion. Be that as it may, Hurd was a poison that is personally responsible for at least 2 losses. Injuries didn't help the others.

Hero?
He was the last guy here to actually win something. You don't have to kick sand at Fulmer to praise Jones if that's your agenda. Until Jones finds that he's not Fulmer.

Hurd being personally responsible for 2 Ls is one of the funnier things I've read lately.

 

[BeecherVol]

he's damned if he do, damned if he don't. could you imagine the uproar if he booted hurd before the season? so he'd be wrong for keeping him on the team and he'd been labeled wrong for booting him... a lot of our brethren seem to have very selective memory lol

Not at all. If it was the right call and got him the 2 wins he missed (which some speculate was the cost of keeping Hurd) he wins the east and finishes with no worse than 10 wins.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Hero?
He was the last guy here to actually win something. You don't have to kick sand at Fulmer to praise Jones if that's your agenda. Until Jones finds that he's not Fulmer.

Hurd being personally responsible for 2 Ls is one of the funnier things I've read lately.

I have absolutely no agenda. Just pointing finger at another Philmerite. Sure he was the last one to win something. By your definition of winning, that ended about 15 years ago though. The veiled "fahr CBJ" implications are rather funny. You guys think you are clever and you aren't.

Hurd is directly responsible for aTm and SC. Depending on a guy to be thu man and having him pitch a tantrum that leaves him home a game then play like a little ***** against SC is a direct responsibility in my books.

Keep being clever with the "it's all Butch's fault" comments though, some of them are funny.

 

[BeecherVol]

I have absolutely no agenda. Just pointing finger at another Philmerite. Sure he was the last one to win something. By your definition of winning, that ended about 15 years ago though. The veiled "fahr CBJ" implications are rather funny. You guys think you are clever and you aren't.

Hurd is directly responsible for aTm and SC. Depending on a guy to be thu man and having him pitch a tantrum that leaves him home a game then play like a little ***** against SC is a direct responsibility in my books.

Keep being clever with the "it's all Butch's fault" comments though, some of them are funny.

But instead of praising Fulmer for that and building up Jones for what you think he has done here, you poo on the guy that has made it to the top.

Your quotations in this case are misplaced.

Many here think we were better without Hurd and hang their hat on the A&M game as proof.

He is an interesting topic, many claim this poison was evident earlier in his career and season. But yet he remained on the roster.

 

[Ace]

It being the off season we all obviously have a lot more time to think. I often find myself in the off-season looking reasons of optimism regardless of the state of the program.

Today while thinking I came across an interesting thought. Being as young as I am I didn't get to enjoy the 1998 Championship as much as some of you did. Which is what brought me to the question I'm about to ask. (Note this has no relation to the upcoming season, rather just a question of curiosity)

What was the mental state of the program and the fans going in to the 1998 season?

What were fans opinion of Fulmer, Manning's last game, and just what the next season held? Were there already National Championship talks at hand or was Manning's departure and inability to win a National Championship, for some, a sign of the decline to come?

Figure this would spark some fun conversation and reminiscence of the "Good Ol' Days".

Thank for those who reply.

For a perspective on 1998 you have to remember, personal computers were just becoming household items, internet was available with dial up, if you had a cell phone it was most likely a candy bar style or a big bulky car phone. For Vol info you had to read KNS, subscribe to Rocky Top News and wait for spring magazine "Football Time in Tennessee".

I think most people thought we would be down after losing Peyton and the win over Syracuse left lots of doubts. I attended wins over Florida and Bama. Defense really dominated for much of season. And like any championship team, they needed lots of luck (Stoerner fumble, FSU qb injury). Team was very inconsistent all year, but what stands out is the player leadership on the team. Al Wilson and Billy Ratliff literally willed this team to win.

I think many doubted CPF, thinking if he cannot win it all with Manning then he could never win it all.

 

[BeecherVol]

but, this off season he's made changes. he's at the very least recognized things aren't going to get better by standing pat. if you're looking for positives, there it is. doesn't necessarily mean it'll all work out, but he's proved he's not stupid (as some would have you think), he knows what needs to be fixed.

the only question left to answer....can he fix it?

he fixed what Dooley left him. now can he fix what he left himself?

This is an interesting statement. Given a lot of comments you read on this site. You wouldn't think he needed to fix anything at this point. Much less something of his own doing.

 

[jakez4ut]

This is an interesting statement. Given a lot of comments you read on this site. You wouldn't think he needed to fix anything at this point. Much less something of his own doing.

it's kind of a paradox. and i've said it several times this off season already...he's getting a chance to rebuild a rebuild. start over. hit the reset button.

it's odd actually. not everybody gets that kind of a chance.

but it can't be lost on anyone that he brought the original BSIA to Knoxiville...and how'd that work out?

we'll see how this version does....as kind as my post may seem, the underlying theme is "there's no more excuses". so good or bad from this point....it's all on him.:thumbsup:

 

[82_VOL_83]

But instead of praising Fulmer for that and building up Jones for what you think he has done here, you poo on the guy that has made it to the top.

Your quotations in this case are misplaced.

Many here think we were better without Hurd and hang their hat on the A&M game as proof.

He is an interesting topic, many claim this poison was evident earlier in his career and season. But yet he remained on the roster.

1) any comment made about Philmer that isn't unicorns and rainbows is tearing him down. I have never belittled CPF for what he did in the 90's, ever. After losing Cut, he was lost. He began the descent of the elevator to the lower floors, Fooley took it to the basement. However, I am not a fan of CPF as a person.
2) my supposition was had he been playing up to his ability and knocking the **** out of people, aTm wouldn't have been a question. Playing half assed against SC caused that loss or at least directly contributed to it.
3) we win aTm and SC, we most likely steamroll Candy.

 

[BeecherVol]

1) any comment made about Philmer that isn't unicorns and rainbows is tearing him down. I have never belittled CPF for what he did in the 90's, ever. After losing Cut, he was lost. He began the descent of the elevator to the lower floors, Fooley took it to the basement. However, I am not a fan of CPF as a person.
2) my supposition was had he been playing up to his ability and knocking the **** out of people, aTm wouldn't have been a question. Playing half assed against SC caused that loss or at least directly contributed to it.
3) we win aTm and SC, we most likely steamroll Candy.

1) So we had "Philmer" or "hero", "Lame" (guessing), and "Fooley". Do we now have "Botch"?

2) Mine would be that if he was a poison or a cancer and was playing half assed he shouldnt have been on the field. Or on the team if it was to the extent some claimed.

3) UT lost to A&M because they turned the football over. UT had 2 weeks to prep for SC and looked like the just took off 2 weeks. Dobbs had his worst game since maybe ever. Vandy should be a win regardless.

 

[peppervol]

Millennial here also. After checking our wiki, this blew my mind:

We lost nine games in five seasons (1994-1998), won two SEC Championships, and a BCS National Championship.

Peyton's freshman season was four losses. Not counting that, we had five losses in four years. That is insane. What a time to be a fan.

Truly, a glorious time to be Vol fan, zep. Wished you had been there. Magical, my friend. Sit tight. We'll be back....

 

[peppervol]

Thought Clint Stoner was paid to fumble

Whatever you do, Bio, don't say that to Billy Ratliff. One of the most awesome defensive charges at the snap and against a consensus All-American guard, God rest his soul.

 

[peppervol]

Sounds good then, thank you to him and whoever paid him! ��

Thank one Billy Ratliff....

 

[82_VOL_83]

1) So we had "Philmer" or "hero", "Lame" (guessing), and "Fooley". Do we now have "Botch"?

2) Mine would be that if he was a poison or a cancer and was playing half assed he shouldnt have been on the field. Or on the team if it was to the extent some claimed.

3) UT lost to A&M because they turned the football over. UT had 2 weeks to prep for SC and looked like the just took off 2 weeks. Dobbs had his worst game since maybe ever. Vandy should be a win regardless.

Head meet wall.

 

[BeecherVol]

Head meet wall.

Philmer or Botch?

 

[82_VOL_83]

Philmer or Botch?

In your case, both.

 

[BeecherVol]

In your case, both.

Nah.

Didn't coin any of those.

 

[BeecherVol]

Just found it curious that Phil had a name but Jones didnt.