Questions from a Millennial?

#151
#151
Enki_Amenra said:
The "if you lose one" was a caveat to say that losing one would only be worse. The point is that the additional game effects other games. Even with winning all of the easy games, they do effect other games.

There is no way to know whether or not a rash of injuries would have happened had Fulmer's teams played the additional game. Because of this past year, we do know it happens. Had it happened to Fulmer, then some of those wins could easily turn into losses, even if they won the cupcake game where the injuries occurred. So, playing and winning 1 additional game could turn several of those wins into losses later in the season and would most definitely effect his career numbers.
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They also add a win and make everyone play an additional game that all those things can happen in.

It's a stretch. More often than not it pads your win stats.
 
#154
#154
Enki_Amenra said:
More often than not? Like this past year, right?
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So you go with one season to disprove more often than not.

That's assuming you think UT shouldn't have won the games they lost because the we re injured from playing an extra game that everybody else they lost to seemed to navigate.
 
#155
#155
BeecherVol said:
So you go with one season to disprove more often than not.

That's assuming you think UT shouldn't have won the games they lost because the we re injured from playing an extra game that everybody else they lost to seemed to navigate.
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Did we or did we not have an extreme amount of injuries occur in one of the non-conference games that would likely not be on the schedule without the additional game?

Other teams play the games too. Not all teams experience the same number of injuries. When you experience a rash of injuries it does effect the rest of the season, regardless of the injury situation of other teams. Playing an additional game only increases the likelihood of those injuries and the effects they could have on the season as a whole.
 
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#156
#156
The main difference back then was the consistency. We had talent year in, year out. And Depth. We were always deep. A down year was an 8 win season.

While many still recall the days of Wide Receiver U, the truth is the Fulmer years were O-Line U. We were deep, putting multiple starting O-Linemen in the NFL every year. Phil could get them all, highly recruited and diamonds in the rough. He could take all lineman from Tennessee and turn out one of the best O-lines in the nation. The O-Line is what we have missed most of late.
 
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#157
#157
Enki_Amenra said:
Did we or did we not have an extreme amount of injuries occur in one of the non-conference games that would likely not be on the schedule without the additional game?

Other teams play the games too. Not all teams experience the same number of injuries. When you experience a rash of injuries it does effect the rest of the season, regardless of the injury situation of other teams. Playing an additional game only increases the likelihood of those injuries and the effects they could have on the season as a whole.
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Did you or did you not hang your entire argument on one season where every team is taking that extra risk?

Which begs to question, is that a fluke or is it something UT is doing that is aiding the high number?
 
#158
#158
BeecherVol said:
Did you or did you not hang your entire argument on one season where every team is taking that extra risk?

Which begs to question, is that a fluke or is it something UT is doing that is aiding the high number?
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First, I am not arguing. Making an argument that an additional game does not effect the season as a whole would be silly for anyone to do.

Second, I did not base the entire discussion on a single season. Rather, I provided a recent example, that most here are familiar with, of how the additional game can effect a season.

You said it yourself, other teams play the additional game. The same thing happens to different teams every year. It did not happen as much when there was not an additional game to play.

So, was it a fluke? If not, then what could UT possibly be doing that no other team in college football is doing that would increase the # of injuries?
 
#159
#159
zeppelin128 said:
Millennial here also. After checking our wiki, this blew my mind:

We lost nine games in five seasons (1994-1998), won two SEC Championships, and a BCS National Championship.

Peyton's freshman season was four losses. Not counting that, we had five losses in four years. That is insane. What a time to be a fan.
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Peyton's freshmen year had a string of QB injuries. It was nuts.
 
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#160
#160
Hairy Vols said:
It being the off season we all obviously have a lot more time to think. I often find myself in the off-season looking reasons of optimism regardless of the state of the program.

Today while thinking I came across an interesting thought. Being as young as I am I didn't get to enjoy the 1998 Championship as much as some of you did. Which is what brought me to the question I'm about to ask. (Note this has no relation to the upcoming season, rather just a question of curiosity)

What was the mental state of the program and the fans going in to the 1998 season?

What were fans opinion of Fulmer, Manning's last game, and just what the next season held? Were there already National Championship talks at hand or was Manning's departure and inability to win a National Championship, for some, a sign of the decline to come?

Figure this would spark some fun conversation and reminiscence of the "Good Ol' Days".

Thank for those who reply. :)
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Other than QB, Tennessee was loaded going into that season. Tee was a perfect fit but many were skeptical because we lost Peyton. Tee walked into a perfect situation and Tennessee caught some good breaks that year
 
#162
#162
Backwards K said:
:dunno:Heck!! I blame the millennials. Tennessee had a great football program until y'all started rooting for the Vols. We've been mediocre ever since. Y'all need to toughen up and quit dragging the program down!!
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Uhhh, I'm a millennial and I personally watched the greatest decade-long run in UT history since the inception of the AP. They got good right when I started watching (Andy Kelly years).
 
#163
#163
Orangedogsrule said:
What Fulmer did was totally understandable. UT was correct in replacing an increasingly alcoholic head coach with and his shenannigans. If anyone had struck a match near Majors at some practices their would have been only scorched earth where the gridiron used to be and the half pint in his pocket would have been a puddle of melted glass.

No, lots of players and assistant coaches, administration and boosters were totally rhrough with trying to gloss over Major's drinking problem. And it had already given his foul mouth a bigger motor and extra gear in the worst of situations.

Don't get me wrong. Johnny Majors was exactly what Tennessee needed when "Johnny came marching home" after winning the NC at Pitt with his "Follow me to Tennessee" slogan. He did indeed rebuild the program and deserves every credit. Who will ever forget "The Miracle at Nortre Dame" comeback and "The Sugar Vols" dismantling Miami and Vinny Who?
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Amen. We needed Phil at that time.
 
#164
#164
BeecherVol said:
How many teams was UF not scoring on during that stretch?
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Between 1991 and 2001, there were only 13 out of 139 games where UF scored less than 20 points:


10/5/1991 - LSU (W 16-0)
11/30/1991 - Florida State (W 14-9)
9/9/1992 - Tennessee (L 14-31)
10/1/1992 - Mississippi State (L 6-30)
11/14/1992 - South Carolina (W 14-9)
1/1/1995 - Florida State (L 17-23)
11/1/1997 - Georgia (L 17-37)
9/19/1998 - Tennessee (L 17-20)
10/3/1998 - Alabama (W 16-10)
11/21/1998 - Florida State (L 12-23)
11/6/1999 - Vanderbilt (W 13-6)
12/4/1999 - Alabama (L 7-34)
11/18/2000 - Florida State (L 7-30)





If I change it to where UF scored 21 points or less, it still only increases to 24 out of 139 games.

FSU seemed to be about the closest to a "best" team at limiting their scoring during that period...holding them to 21 points or less about 6 times in about 13 matchups (they had bowl rematches in 2 seasons).
 
#165
#165
Enki_Amenra said:
First, I am not arguing. Making an argument that an additional game does not effect the season as a whole would be silly for anyone to do.

Second, I did not base the entire discussion on a single season. Rather, I provided a recent example, that most here are familiar with, of how the additional game can effect a season.

You said it yourself, other teams play the additional game. The same thing happens to different teams every year. It did not happen as much when there was not an additional game to play.

So, was it a fluke? If not, then what could UT possibly be doing that no other team in college football is doing that would increase the # of injuries?
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No one is saying it doesn't. You have a chance to win another game.

The term I used was "more often than not", Im not sure why you felt that using a recent season meant anything to that.

Exactly. The results or records is the point, because everyone is dealing with what comes from the extra game.

Been plenty of speculation and not just regarding season ending stuff. Thats been covered plenty and good points have been made on both sides.
If it was a fluke, that doesn't mean that more often than not the extra non conf cupcake is causing Ls that shouldn't happen and that it would have made it easier for Fulmer to drop another game during the his seasons of 11 games.
 
#166
#166
BeecherVol said:
Did you or did you not hang your entire argument on one season where every team is taking that extra risk?

Which begs to question, is that a fluke or is it something UT is doing that is aiding the high number?
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Both. I believe we had more than the average number. I also believe that Butch depended on "the team" to motivate "the team" and we were under conditioned as a whole. There were injuries to guys that were in shape because they had rehabbed to get there that just were the victims of the injury bug.
 
#167
#167
TrueOrange said:
Between 1991 and 2001, there were only 13 out of 139 games where UF scored less than 20 points:


10/5/1991 - LSU (W 16-0)
11/30/1991 - Florida State (W 14-9)
9/9/1992 - Tennessee (L 14-31)
10/1/1992 - Mississippi State (L 6-30)
11/14/1992 - South Carolina (W 14-9)
1/1/1995 - Florida State (L 17-23)
11/1/1997 - Georgia (L 17-37)
9/19/1998 - Tennessee (L 17-20)
10/3/1998 - Alabama (W 16-10)
11/21/1998 - Florida State (L 12-23)
11/6/1999 - Vanderbilt (W 13-6)
12/4/1999 - Alabama (L 7-34)
11/18/2000 - Florida State (L 7-30)





If I change it to where UF scored 21 points or less, it still only increases to 24 out of 139 games.

FSU seemed to be about the closest to a "best" team at limiting their scoring during that period...holding them to 21 points or less about 6 times in about 13 matchups (they had bowl rematches in 2 seasons).
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Yeah. They very seldom had a problem scoring points.
 
#168
#168
BeecherVol said:
They also add a win and make everyone play an additional game that all those things can happen in.

It's a stretch. More often than not it pads your win stats.
Click to expand...

Have to agree here. More often than not.. Highly more often than not is more like it. However, my major issue with Fulmer is that his teams nearly always looked flat. They won games on talent. 98 was an exception to this. There always seemed to be an OOC game that they had trouble with. Didn't necessarily lose, just looked bad.
 
#170
#170
BeecherVol said:
No one is saying it doesn't. You have a chance to win another game.

The term I used was "more often than not", Im not sure why you felt that using a recent season meant anything to that.

Exactly. The results or records is the point, because everyone is dealing with what comes from the extra game.

Been plenty of speculation and not just regarding season ending stuff. Thats been covered plenty and good points have been made on both sides.
If it was a fluke, that doesn't mean that more often than not the extra non conf cupcake is causing Ls that shouldn't happen and that it would have made it easier for Fulmer to drop another game during the his seasons of 11 games.
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That is exactly my point. Comparing teams who played an extra game to those who didn't is foolish. There is no way to know what would have happened with those teams, but there is evidence of what could happen.

I used the recent season because everyone around here is familiar with it. It is evidence of what can happen when injuries occur during a non-conference game that may not have been on the schedule in earlier days.

Was it a fluke in your opinion?
 
#171
#171
TrueOrange said:
Between 1991 and 2001, there were only 13 out of 139 games where UF scored less than 20 points:

10/5/1991 - LSU (W 16-0)
11/30/1991 - Florida State (W 14-9)
9/9/1992 - Tennessee (L 14-31)
10/1/1992 - Mississippi State (L 6-30)
11/14/1992 - South Carolina (W 14-9)
1/1/1995 - Florida State (L 17-23)
11/1/1997 - Georgia (L 17-37)
9/19/1998 - Tennessee (L 17-20)
10/3/1998 - Alabama (W 16-10)
11/21/1998 - Florida State (L 12-23)
11/6/1999 - Vanderbilt (W 13-6)
12/4/1999 - Alabama (L 7-34)
11/18/2000 - Florida State (L 7-30)

If I change it to where UF scored 21 points or less, it still only increases to 24 out of 139 games.

FSU seemed to be about the closest to a "best" team at limiting their scoring during that period...holding them to 21 points or less about 6 times in about 13 matchups (they had bowl rematches in 2 seasons).
Click to expand...

FSU had the athletes to consistently shut down Spurrier's offense. Their team speed on defense back in the 90s was ridiculous.

Outside of FSU, it was rare for UF to get blown out under Spurrier, and oddly enough it was also rare for UF to win a close game under Spurrier.
 
#172
#172
zeppelin128 said:
Millennial here also. After checking our wiki, this blew my mind:

We lost nine games in five seasons (1994-1998), won two SEC Championships, and a BCS National Championship.

Peyton's freshman season was four losses. Not counting that, we had five losses in four years. That is insane. What a time to be a fan.
Click to expand...

It was. And we took those years for granted. Being utterly pi$$ed off at a loss to Florida being one of our only or few losses, perennial top 15, etc. was a great time to be a fan

However, for me, I will always wear my orange proudly. I'd rather be a Tennessee fan with what we have gone through than a Bama fan any day of the week. I love my VOLS--lean times and victorious ones as well.
 
#173
#173
Enki_Amenra said:
That is exactly my point. Comparing teams who played an extra game to those who didn't is foolish. There is no way to know what would have happened with those teams, but there is evidence of what could happen.

I used the recent season because everyone around here is familiar with it. It is evidence of what can happen when injuries occur during a non-conference game that may not have been on the schedule in earlier days.

Was it a fluke in your opinion?
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Your blowing up the idea as foolish but yet are leaning on what could might possibly happen if a fluke injury year happens. It's not as hard to compare as you are claiming.

In the big picture, (coaching careers) an extra cupcake will out weigh the possible fluke as a positive, because at some point that fluke will happen to all of them. And a big part of the time they (the major programs) are picking up an extra win.
 
#174
#174
Lawrence Wright said:
FSU had the athletes to consistently shut down Spurrier's offense. Their team speed on defense back in the 90s was ridiculous.

Outside of FSU, it was rare for UF to get blown out under Spurrier, and oddly enough it was also rare for UF to win a close game under Spurrier.
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FSU had legit NFL talent all over their defense most every year back then.
 
#175
#175
82_VOL_83 said:
Have to agree here. More often than not.. Highly more often than not is more like it. However, my major issue with Fulmer is that his teams nearly always looked flat. They won games on talent. 98 was an exception to this. There always seemed to be an OOC game that they had trouble with. Didn't necessarily lose, just looked bad.
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Fulmer had his flaws no doubt, and they led to him being removed.

One thing I don't get, (in a general sense from some) is damping what he did here overall in some attempt to explain the current situation as better than others see it.

If it were me I would be doing the opposite until Jones proves worthy of the comparison. Main reason is Jones is being lauded for the same results that many Vol fans *****ed about when Fulmer provided.
 
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