Questions from a Millennial?

[BeecherVol]

Witch Doctor say Fulmer followed Majors which had brought the team back
Jones followed the mess of Kiffen and Dooley, in fairness I think Dooley had set back the program much much more than any coach at Tennessee. I agree he has climbed us back somewhat, but with our messed up Admin and Dooley...hes had a much harder job than Fulmer.

BNL

Depends on how you look at it. Jones walked in with no expectations for 2 to 3 years. For that matter Fulmer was getting raked over the coals for winning 8 regular season games.

In a sense the pressure was substantially less following Dooley than Majors or even the bad of Fulmers last few years.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Depends on how you look at it. Jones walked in with no expectations for 2 to 3 years. For that matter Fulmer was getting raked over the coals for winning 8 regular season games.

In a sense the pressure was substantially less following Dooley than Majors or even the bad of Fulmers last few years.

Witch Doctor agree... Fulmer was awesome the first few years and had a fire that was undeniable, hearing player talking about how HE cried with them after the games...gave me chills, ...he got a little lazy last few years.

Jones didnt win the East, ...yea probably should have..BEAT two teams we all love to beat (not bama, nobody is beating them..lets be real ) and lost two we should not have lost..but thats College football. rather have won, but didnt, its not football but UCONN ladies won 111 straight, lost to a team they should have easily beat...thats college sports, Fulmer lost to Memphis(with Peyton) and Wyoming...?? thats College sports. thats why I love it, Jones is a good coach. hes not done, Saban looses to teams they should beat..I really think Jones is trying everything he can to win and even fired, ran off some long time asst coaches to do it..
Go Vols

BNL

 

[BeecherVol]

Witch Doctor agree... Fulmer was awesome the first few years and had a fire that was undeniable, hearing player talking about how HE cried with them after the games...gave me chills, ...he got a little lazy last few years.

Jones didnt win the East, ...yea probably should have..BEAT two teams we all love to beat (not bama, nobody is beating them..lets be real ) and lost two we should not have lost..but thats College football. rather have won, but didnt, its not football but UCONN ladies won 111 straight, lost to a team they should have easily beat...thats college sports, Fulmer lost to Memphis(with Peyton) and Wyoming...?? thats College sports. thats why I love it, Jones is a good coach. hes not done, Saban looses to teams they should beat..
Go Vols

BNL

Jones is better than Dooley and to this point hasn't shown signs of being as good as Fulmer much less better. And Fulmer got run, even tho he was the definition of a "UT guy". I don't know if that makes him a good coach. It depends on who you compare him to.

 

[TrueOrange]

i think by the time we beat Auburn FL and GA, it was pretty apparent that team was really good. that FL game was as hard fought a game by both sides as maybe i've seen. we did dominate GA, and though the score didn't necessarily reflect it, we steamrolled Auburn.

the Arkansas game, i don't think anyone saw Ark being as good as they were that season. at the time we played, both were undefeated, and Arkansas was ranked i think 8th, and had they won that game, would have put themselves right in the BCS picture.

while i won't argue the circumstances, cause that game was all but lost, but when they recovered the fumble, it wasn't like it was inside the 5. we had to go 1/2 a field score a touchdown to win, and did. the fumble per se didn't win the game. it just provided the opportunity, so at least there's credit for taking advantage of it.

when i think "sheer luck" i think Miami returning a fumble recovery 92 yards against BC for the win in one of their title runs. or Nebraska/Mo in 97 when there was a kicked tip in the endzone for the win. or CO getting 5 downs on the goal line in their co national title season.

Heh. Missouri was on the receiving end of both of those.

 

[tennesseeduke]

It being the off season we all obviously have a lot more time to think. I often find myself in the off-season looking reasons of optimism regardless of the state of the program.

Today while thinking I came across an interesting thought. Being as young as I am I didn't get to enjoy the 1998 Championship as much as some of you did. Which is what brought me to the question I'm about to ask. (Note this has no relation to the upcoming season, rather just a question of curiosity)

What was the mental state of the program and the fans going in to the 1998 season?

What were fans opinion of Fulmer, Manning's last game, and just what the next season held? Were there already National Championship talks at hand or was Manning's departure and inability to win a National Championship, for some, a sign of the decline to come?

Figure this would spark some fun conversation and reminiscence of the "Good Ol' Days".

Thank for those who reply.

I thought going into the 98 season we would be 10-2 heading back to the citrus bowl. Schedule was fair but with Peyton gone I wasn't sure what to think of Tee yet as he was pretty much a blank slate.

I was also honestly disappointed with 96 & 97 even and Fulmer, even though we only lost 3 games in 2 years. Those were some of the most talented teams in UT history. Only 5 years removed from Majors also there were a lot of fans that still didn't like the way Fulmer had done coach Majors. You had to be here and experience it to understand what really happened.

This coming season has some of the feel as 98 preseason did, lots of talent, deep every position, unknown QB, great special teams.

I'll guess 10-2 again and hope we get the same result as 98!

:loco:

Tennesseeduke

 

[ImportedVoL]

The extra game is a win? Did you miss the Oklahoma games and the Oregon game? High likelihood that Fulmer's teams would've lost most, if not all, of those games.

Bottom line? Fulmer never produced any inexplicable losses with a far superior team? Memphis is the easy one.

The bottom line is that Fulmer only produced somewhat better results in his first 3+/- years, although he had a far superior roster.

His record in his 3rd year as HC was the same as CBJ's, though it could've been better or worse with an extra game to play. He didn't win the SEC East or the SEC until his 6th year.

The point is that Fulmer was one of the best coaches we've ever had and CBJ has not under-performed on expectations as a whole, doing so while completely rebuilding the program from the lowest point in it's history.

I don't know if CBJ will continue to produce ascending results or if he will ever win more than he has. I do believe that arguing he is garbage and can't get the job done when all the facts show that he is getting the job done to this point is ridiculous, irresponsible, and somewhat immature.

You just won volnation

 

[volfanbill]

Witch Doctor agree... Fulmer was awesome the first few years and had a fire that was undeniable, hearing player talking about how HE cried with them after the games...gave me chills, ...he got a little lazy last few years.

Jones didnt win the East, ...yea probably should have..BEAT two teams we all love to beat (not bama, nobody is beating them..lets be real ) and lost two we should not have lost..but thats College football. rather have won, but didnt, its not football but UCONN ladies won 111 straight, lost to a team they should have easily beat...thats college sports, Fulmer lost to Memphis(with Peyton) and Wyoming...?? thats College sports. thats why I love it, Jones is a good coach. hes not done, Saban looses to teams they should beat..I really think Jones is trying everything he can to win and even fired, ran off some long time asst coaches to do it..
Go Vols

BNL

The difference is that while there were bad losses in between, off the top of your head, the two games for Fulmer were a decade apart. The bad losses for Jones are weeks apart

 

[wmcovol]

Thought Clint Stoner was paid to fumble

Sad that Billy Ratliff makes one of the all-time great plays (completely blowing up an All American Right Guard for Ark) and Vol fans, of all people, don't have enough sense to see what really happened.

 

[Boca Vol]

The extra game is a win? Did you miss the Oklahoma games and the Oregon game? High likelihood that Fulmer's teams would've lost most, if not all, of those games.

Bottom line? Fulmer never produced any inexplicable losses with a far superior team? Memphis is the easy one.

The bottom line is that Fulmer only produced somewhat better results in his first 3+/- years, although he had a far superior roster.

His record in his 3rd year as HC was the same as CBJ's, though it could've been better or worse with an extra game to play. He didn't win the SEC East or the SEC until his 6th year.

The point is that Fulmer was one of the best coaches we've ever had and CBJ has not under-performed on expectations as a whole, doing so while completely rebuilding the program from the lowest point in it's history.

I don't know if CBJ will continue to produce ascending results or if he will ever win more than he has. I do believe that arguing he is garbage and can't get the job done when all the facts show that he is getting the job done to this point is ridiculous, irresponsible, and somewhat immature.

Yes, the extra game on today's, 12 game, schedule is a built-in win. See: APSU, UTC, T-Tech, etc. It's not the Oregons or OUs as UT has always schedule a good/decent OOC game every year.

 

[CABVOL]

How many teams was UF not scoring on during that stretch?

Spurrier's "Fun-n-Gun" offenses at Florida were machines. What you young ones witnessed from Spurrier's offenses at South Carolina were nothing like the offenses he ran at UF.

At UF, it didn't matter how much he was up either, he was going to throw the ball around and dare the other team to stop them. They could score in the blink of an eye.

 

[BeecherVol]

Spurrier's "Fun-n-Gun" offenses at Florida were machines. What you young ones witnessed from Spurrier's offenses at South Carolina were nothing like the offenses he ran at UF.

At UF, it didn't matter how much he was up either, he was going to throw the ball around and dare the other team to stop them. They could score in the blink of an eye.

He was much more conservative at SC because he didn't have the QB play to do what he did at UF. Having Lattimore made the decision easier as well. He had some very good skill talent at SC, just not as much as he had at UF.
I think what he did at SC was more remarkable than what he did at UF.

His UF teams were dynamic and innovative for that time. While he would sling it all over the field early and get a lead, he didn't mind slowing it down later and running you to your death.

 

[BeecherVol]

Yes, the extra game on today's, 12 game, schedule is a built-in win. See: APSU, UTC, T-Tech, etc. It's not the Oregons or OUs as UT has always schedule a good/decent OOC game every year.

This.

The 11 game seasons included one good (or typically by tradition) game and 2 should be Ws. For non conf.
Miami, Notre Dame, UCLA...

The added non conf game didn't add Oregon and OU to that group. They would have been on there with 3 should be wins instead of 2.

 

[Backwards K]

:dunno:Heck!! I blame the millennials. Tennessee had a great football program until y'all started rooting for the Vols. We've been mediocre ever since. Y'all need to toughen up and quit dragging the program down!!

 

[Witch_Doctor]

The difference is that while there were bad losses in between, off the top of your head, the two games for Fulmer were a decade apart. The bad losses for Jones are weeks apart

Witchie a proud ETSU alum..and still crave Gregs Pizza/Ridgewood(bluff city) and Pals...lol

anyway..No Fulmer hate here, just saying fact. Fulmer didnt have to come in after Dooley/Kiffen and the mess the AD dept is in...thats why NO BIG name coach wanted the job and with more missteps on HOW they hired Currie..pretty much assures it wont be a destination job in the future. Besides we really dont have the legacy we act like we have. Weve been good some years and really stunk it up the next. Fulmer had the best run...before that...well not so much. if were being honest. Dooley had alienated all local Tennessee schools and had ZERO lineman the next year Butch took over...kids dont fall of trees and during that time Tennessee meant nothing to top level recruits..again, being honest. cant snap your fingers hollar GO VOLS and people come running.

BNL

 

[Enki_Amenra]

Yes, the extra game on today's, 12 game, schedule is a built-in win. See: APSU, UTC, T-Tech, etc. It's not the Oregons or OUs as UT has always schedule a good/decent OOC game every year.

I'd contend there is no such thing as a "built-in win". While most of those games will end as wins, they're definitely not guaranteed. If you can't beat them, there is definitely a problem.

The grind of an extra week of preparation and installation has effects beyond the lone extra game. Injuries could occur in the game that effect the results of other games in the season (I think that happened to us this past season). If you happen to have a poor performance, but still get the win, you could be effected in the rankings (I think that happened to us this past season). That could have many different side-effects.

The point still stands; comparing teams who did not play the additional games to teams who do is a fool's errand.

 

[volfanbill]

Witchie a proud ETSU alum..and still crave Gregs Pizza/Ridgewood(bluff city) and Pals...lol

anyway..No Fulmer hate here, just saying fact. Fulmer didnt have to come in after Dooley/Kiffen and the mess the AD dept is in...thats why NO BIG name coach wanted the job and with more missteps on HOW they hired Currie..pretty much assures it wont be a destination job in the future. Besides we really dont have the legacy we act like we have. Weve been good some years and really stunk it up the next. Fulmer had the best run...before that...well not so much. if were being honest. Dooley had alienated all local Tennessee schools and had ZERO lineman the next year Butch took over...kids dont fall of trees and during that time Tennessee meant nothing to top level recruits..again, being honest. cant snap your fingers hollar GO VOLS and people come running.

BNL

While I get your point, Butch was in year 4. Those problems were supposed to be over or at least vastly mitigated. They weren't. That falls on Butch at this point. Just like it fell on Fulmer when he let those exact same issues first occur in the late '00s.

Gregs is delicious, as is Pal's. Ridgewood might be the most overrated BBQ of all time, but that's a different topic brother.

 

[Boca Vol]

I'd contend there is no such thing as a "built-in win". While most of those games will end as wins, they're definitely not guaranteed. If you can't beat them, there is definitely a problem.

The grind of an extra week of preparation and installation has effects beyond the lone extra game. Injuries could occur in the game that effect the results of other games in the season (I think that happened to us this past season). If you happen to have a poor performance, but still get the win, you could be effected in the rankings (I think that happened to us this past season). That could have many different side-effects.

The point still stands; comparing teams who did not play the additional games to teams who do is a fool's errand.

Does that count for every team or only UT? Because most teams follow the same scheduling formula.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

Does that count for every team or only UT? Because most teams follow the same scheduling formula.

It counts for every team that plays the additional game, of course. It can't count for the teams of the past that never played the additional game.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

While I get your point, Butch was in year 4. Those problems were supposed to be over or at least vastly mitigated. They weren't. That falls on Butch at this point. Just like it fell on Fulmer when he let those exact same issues first occur in the late '00s.

Gregs is delicious, as is Pal's. Ridgewood might be the most overrated BBQ of all time, but that's a different topic brother.

Witch Doctor say you dont appreciate it till you move away and eat some this crap they call BBQ down here..lol. Pals, theres not a burger close..In and Out out west is close...wait what were we talking about? lol Jones will either be in a make or break by the end of next season..this admin is not going to be back on the market for a new coach 5 in 11 years..nobody would come here

BNL
Witch Doctor on diet, hungry and easily distracted. haha

 

[BeecherVol]

I'd contend there is no such thing as a "built-in win". While most of those games will end as wins, they're definitely not guaranteed. If you can't beat them, there is definitely a problem.

The grind of an extra week of preparation and installation has effects beyond the lone extra game. Injuries could occur in the game that effect the results of other games in the season (I think that happened to us this past season). If you happen to have a poor performance, but still get the win, you could be effected in the rankings (I think that happened to us this past season). That could have many different side-effects.

The point still stands; comparing teams who did not play the additional games to teams who do is a fool's errand.

You said Fulmer could have easily went 9-4 with the extra game instead of 9-3 only later to say, that most of those games will end up that way (as wins).

The coach speak sounds good, yes there is not a "guaranteed" win on the schedule. But they didn't add Oregon or Oklahoma to Miami or Notre Dame that was already on the schedule for the extra non conference game. They are adding who they are adding for a reason.

 

[volfanbill]

Witch Doctor say you dont appreciate it till you move away and eat some this crap they call BBQ down here..lol. Pals, theres not a burger close..In and Out out west is close...wait what were we talking about? lol Jones will either be in a make or break by the end of next season..this admin is not going to be back on the market for a new coach 5 in 11 years..nobody would come here

BNL
Witch Doctor on diet, hungry and easily distracted. haha

I live in Hampton Roads, Va now and can only find one acceptable BBQ joint here so I understand. I just think in the Tri Cities, Firehouse, Phil's Dream Pit, B&B BBQ and the no longer amongst us Dixie BBQ were better than Ridgewood. VFB is also on a diet and having serious cravings right now.

Jones has vastly improved the football program and Hart solidified the financial side. If Jones doesn't produce, the new admin will have much better pickings than Hart did when he landed Butch imo.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

You said Fulmer could have easily went 9-4 with the extra game instead of 9-3 only later to say, that most of those games will end up that way (as wins).

The coach speak sounds good, yes there is not a "guaranteed" win on the schedule. But they didn't add Oregon or Oklahoma to Miami or Notre Dame that was already on the schedule for the extra non conference game. They are adding who they are adding for a reason.

Yes, I did say most of those games will end as wins, but their effects on the season could change the results of other games. We saw that this year. We had several injuries occur during one of the "cupcake" games. Those injuries most definitely effected other games and likely were the main reasons we lost multiple games late in the season.

If you happen to lose one of those easy games and suffer injuries or other set-backs that effect later games, the season is a total wreck. This could even happen to teams who didn't play the additional game, but the likelihood of this happening only increases for the teams that do play the additional game. This is part of the reason why comparing teams who play the additional game to teams who did not is foolish.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

... Only 5 years removed from Majors also there were a lot of fans that still didn't like the way Fulmer had done coach Majors. You had to be here and experience it to understand what really happened.

:loco:

Tennesseeduke

What Fulmer did was totally understandable. UT was correct in replacing an increasingly alcoholic head coach with his shenannigans. If anyone had struck a match near Majors at some practices there would have been only scorched earth where the gridiron used to be and the half pint in his pocket would have been a puddle of melted glass.

No, lots of players and assistant coaches, administration and boosters were totally through with trying to gloss over Major's drinking problem. And it had already given his foul mouth a bigger motor and an extra gear in the worst of situations.

Don't get me wrong. Johnny Majors was exactly what Tennessee needed when "Johnny came marching home" after winning the NC at Pitt with his "Follow me to Tennessee" slogan. He did indeed rebuild the program and deserves every credit. Who will ever forget "The Miracle at Nortre Dame" comeback and "The Sugar Vols" dismantling Miami and Vinny Who?

 

[BeecherVol]

Yes, I did say most of those games will end as wins, but their effects on the season could change the results of other games. We saw that this year. We had several injuries occur during one of the "cupcake" games. Those injuries most definitely effected other games and likely were the main reasons we lost multiple games late in the season.

If you happen to lose one of those easy games and suffer injuries or other set-backs that effect later games, the season is a total wreck. This could even happen to teams who didn't play the additional game, but the likelihood of this happening only increases for the teams that do play the additional game. This is part of the reason why comparing teams who play the additional game to teams who did not is foolish.

Jones hasn't lost one of those yet even tho he has flirted a few times.

So I 'll come up quiet a bit short of thinking Fulmer would have done it very often over his career causing his career numbers a hit.

That would be foolish as you say.

On the injuries. Every team that plays more risks that. I'm sure UT played some teams that had injuries this year.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

Jones hasn't lost one of those yet even tho he has flirted a few times.

So I 'll come up quiet a bit short of thinking Fulmer would have done it very often over his career causing his career numbers a hit.

That would be foolish as you say.

The "if you lose one" was a caveat to say that losing one would only be worse. The point is that the additional game effects other games. Even with winning all of the easy games, they do effect other games.

There is no way to know whether or not a rash of injuries would have happened had Fulmer's teams played the additional game. Because of this past year, we do know it happens. Had it happened to Fulmer, then some of those wins could easily turn into losses, even if they won the cupcake game where the injuries occurred. So, playing and winning 1 additional game could turn several of those wins into losses later in the season and would most definitely effect his career numbers.

Edit: Yes, it happens to every team that plays the additional game. I am sure we played teams who experienced injuries because of the additional game. I do believe we experienced a larger number of injuries than pretty much anyone we played. This is why comparing teams that do play the extra game to teams who did not is foolish.